What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:21 pm

e.alleg wrote:Coal usage will probably drop in half unless something else is going on like you are also heating a garage or shed or something.


You may want to check your plumbing, if you notice some new copper running out through your foundation's wall, perhaps your neighbor has tapped into your heat. :lol:




The baro is your ticket to happiness here I would think.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:21 pm

Thank you so much! One final question to exacerbate my ignorance. My boiler sits about 3' off of the wall. There's a 2.5' pipe that meets the elbow, then up and out the smoke goes. I'm going to cut out a piece of this 2.5' pipe so I can install this baro-damper. It appears that this is the point where I set it using a manometer. After its set, then I attach the remaining pipe from the baro to the boiler.

Is this right?
leowis1
 

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: e.alleg On: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:35 pm

You want to put the baro in, hook everything back up completely and fire the stoker. Then you drill a 1/4" hole in the pipe and stick the tube from the manometer in that hole and adjust it that way. The manometer is just basically a vacuum gauge measuring the suction of your chimney, the baro opens up to slow down the suction (draft).
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:41 pm

Here you go, from an authority on draft. Instead of sending your superheated air up the chimney to satisfy the chimneys demand, the baro simply replaces a portion with cool room air. Saves you money. :)

http://www.fieldcontrols.com/draftcontrol.php

I would not worry about the setting to much right now, you really need to get the damper in right away. Just installing it and using the factory setpoint is going to be a huge savings, dialing it in is just a little cream for you in the situation your in.

Back down that Aquastat too. You'll be a 5 tonner before you know it. :D
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:50 pm

Thanks to everybody. I feel like such of bleeping moron! I thought the air intake setting did this job for me. I'll try and do the baro job this weekend.

Not sure if the wife is going to thank me or shoot me?
leowis1
 

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:53 pm

leowis1 wrote:Not sure if the wife is going to thank me or shoot me?


Just tell her that you discovered a way to improve EFM's original design with all your tinkering, she will think your a genius. :roll:
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: beatle78 On: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:05 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
leowis1 wrote:Not sure if the wife is going to thank me or shoot me?


Just tell her that you discovered a way to improve EFM's original design with all your tinkering, she will think your a genius. :roll:


FYI, I had the SAME problem with my Magnum stoker. I didn't think I needed a baro since my dad didn't have one on his (it was a direct vent :bang: )

As the weather got colder the heat output was less and my coal consumption was MORE :mad2:

I ripped through 3 tons of coal like it was nothing and my wife was cold grrrr.....

Once I put the baro in after 1.5 season of use my heat went WAY up and my coal use went WAY down. If I go broke and cannot afford a stoker boiler for next year, I bet I can heat my house for the winter with ~3 tons :D
beatle78
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker KA-4

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:57 am

I agree with all of the above posts. Even with a poorly insulated house with mostly old windows you shouldn't go through nearly that mush coal. In this place I'm up to about 2 1/2 ton so far this year and it's warmer in here than then temperatures you posted.
The chimney size you describe will create a high draft and pull your hear and $$ up the chimney.
A Field Controls "RC" baro (draft control) is the way to go.
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Static pressure of the cool air (1) Illustration A exerts pressure on the outside of the furnace or boiler, the breaching, and stack. The pressure difference between the room air and heated gas (air) causes products of combustion (2) to flow (draft) through the unit and rise through the breaching and chimney.
Room temperature air (3) enters through the barometric draft control (4) in the precise amount needed to overcome the excess drafts caused by temperature variations, wind fluctuations, and barometric pressure changes.
Combustion of fuel is complete and the process is stabilized. The velocity of combustion gases through the heat exchanger is slowed so more heat is extracted. The unit operates more efficiently, reliably, and requires less maintenance.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:01 am

leowis1 wrote:Thanks to everybody. I feel like such of bleeping moron! I thought the air intake setting did this job for me. I'll try and do the baro job this weekend.

Not sure if the wife is going to thank me or shoot me?


Forget about it! I didn't know about draft controls when I started either. it's a learning experience unless you're born into a family of coal burners.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:27 am

WOW! If I never found this forum, I would've been throwing money out the window. Thank God I found you guys. Thank God for the internet! I called a few places around me to purchase a field control baro-damper. Nobody had them. So I ordered the one on Ebay in the comment a few back.

BTW, I touched the flue last night. It was screaming hot. I have about 1 ton of coal left in my bin. It would be great if I could make that stretch until April 1st? If not, I'll get a refill and have plenty of coal for next season.

I post back after I have this thing installed and how the coal consumption is going.

A million thank you's. :D
leowis1
 

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am

Hi leowis, I want to 'reinforce' some previous comments. In the photo of a baro damper that shows the 'V' shaped piece on the door, the one with the slots and sliding weight. There are rough adjustment marks on the slots, this will be close enough to help you control the draft. If you want to, later you can use the loaner manometer or buy a manometer to set it closer to target... But for right now, set it at about .04" or so.

I'm betting you will see the flapper on the damper stay open a lot. This is correct, it is adjusting the chimney draft with room air.

One way of installing the baro is the way wood 'n coal shows and your way you described, installing it in the horizontal section between your first elbow and the thimble entering your chimney.. The only thing to point out here is that the pin that the flapper door pivots on must be level, horizontal to the ground, and the front surface of the damper must be vertical. AND one slot is marked V one is marked H make sure you use the correct slot for your "H'orizontal instalation.

Hope the above helps and doesn't sound like I'm nagging at you!! :lol:

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:46 am

LsFarm wrote:Hope the above helps and doesn't sound like I'm nagging at you!! :lol:


Don't worry Greg, from his posts it seems like his wife has you beat there. :D :roll:
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:53 pm

One quick note:
If the damper is installed the way I have mine the horizontal/vertical settings no longer are accurate, since it is neither H or V, but both. Set-up with the draft gauge is more important. That said I would still install one immediately, but follow up with the draft test and readjustment ASAP.
Just make sure in a Tee installation that the gases flow away from the damper, not towards it.
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Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:02 pm

This is great! I googled manometers to educate myself. You can make your own!? You need a clear tube with some water in it bent like a horse shoe. When the water is level is equal on both sides, you're good. If its not level, then you need to adjust the door accordingly. I guess if the water is pulling more towards the chimney (too much draft), I open damper door to let more air in. Vica-versa if the water pulls more towards the room.

I know I'll find out once I give this thing a test drive, but this is a good topic to discuss.

Gosh, I can't wait to only need 5 tons per winter season! That means I would only have to dump ashes every other day or every 3rd day.
leowis1
 

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:03 pm

Yes you could make your own manometer, but to make one that you can see the correct amount of draft with is very unlikely.
The correct amount of draft is .05" of water column. So lets see 1" of WC would me this much: I-----------I . If you wanted 0.1" it would be about this much: I-I . So HALF of that would be your desired amount of draft: About this much: II . Seeing that much difference between the height of the opposite sided of the 'U' tube would be very difficult.


So: we have a Manometer loaner program, for those who wnat to know, but don't want to buy and install a gauge perminantly. If you PM forum member Matthaus and supply him with your address, you will get on the loaner mailing list, all it will cost is the postage to send the manometer to the next person on the list after you are done with it. Just a few bucks.

The Dwyer MarkII, model 25 spreads the .o1"wc out over about an inch and half, by tipping the tube on the side. and you can see the amount of draft quite easily. Take a look at the Manometer Loaner thread : Manometer Loaner Program

About the fourth post down you will see a good photo of what you want your draft to be, about .04 - .05" WC

Take care. Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Visit Lehigh Anthracite