What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: stoker-man On: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:48 pm

I'm near the southern border of Lehigh, but I don't know your town.

It's not clear to me as to how you are adjusting draft. It's done by adjusting the weight on the draft regulator, but it can't be done correctly without the draft meter. If you get to the point where you're running a positive pressure, you'll start getting CO in the house. The difference between neg. .01 and pos. .01 is about the weight of a fly's wing. :)
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:11 am

Last night I took apart the stove pipes and cleaned everything out. Hooked everything back up and fired up the stoker. The pipe was still hot on the north side of the damper. And the thing was set at the minimum of 2 (or .02)....? I called my coal supplier to a) order more coal and b) ask if they have a manometer that I can rent or borrow. The secretary knows they have a unit on hand and will check with the owner and get back to me.

I'm at a loss as to why the minimum setting on the barometric damper is still not enough to keep the heat in the boiler. I guess I'll have to use washers instead of the weight on the thing.
leowis1
 

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:19 am

Boy did I mess this post up !!! I guess I should have my morning coffee BEFORE I post anything... !! :shock: :shock: :lol: My brain sure wan't 'in gear'

Correction: replace the line: 'Manometer, at least the Dwyer Mark II'. With the line: ' Barometric dampers, at least the Field controls recommended for coal use'.

Manometers, at least the Dwyer Mark II have two slots for the weight, one marked H, the other marked V... this is for when the manometer is in a Horizontal run of flue pipe, or in a Vertical run of flue pipe... take a look at yours, maybe you have it in the wrong slot?? if yours is the same design???
It's been done many times, by installers that should have seen it during installation..

Since your chimney was in need of cleaning, have you cleaned the firebox, and heat exchanger inside the unit ever ??? They collect fly ash too, and need cleaning to stay efficient.

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

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Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:42 am

AHHHHHHHH! Excellent observation. Maybe I do have it backwards? The T is on the vertical pipe (up the wall), but the barometric damper is horizontal to the floor. Damnit, it is backwards! :D

When I get home today I'll run down to the basement and change it. I'll write back with an update.

BTW, last spring I did give the insides of the boiler a thorough cleaning with the shop vac.

Much appreciation.

Leo
leowis1
 

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: stoker-man On: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:18 pm

The draft regulator has to be properly placed in the flue pipe. It can be either in a horizontal or vertical application. A 7" size is the proper size for your stoker.

What I don't understand is the comment about setting the neg. .02 draft without a draft meter. There is nothing about a damper that will set up a proper draft without the meter.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:38 pm

Maybe I'm speaking out of context? There's a scale on the door of the barometric damper, with a weight that slides back and forth. The numbers on the scale range from 2 - 8. That's what I'm referring to. There's also two scales on this door. One the one side there's a letter V and the other side a letter H.

I bought the one on Ebay. It was the link in the post on this thread about 2 dozen back.
leowis1
 

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:42 pm

Hi Stoker man... the field controls dampers have a scale stamped into the slot where you slide the weight for adjustments. This is a rough scale, so it DOES need to be checked and set with a manometer... But not everyone has a manometer or knows of or wants to pay for a coal-knoledgable serviceman to come by and check/set the damper.

This is why Matt and I created the Manometer loaner program...

That said... a Service call by a knowledgable boiler tech would certainly help in 95% of the instalations... Mine too, but I don't think I'd want to pay your mileage to get out to Michigan !! :D :lol: :shock: :o :lol: :lol: :lol:

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: stoker-man On: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:14 pm

OK, I understand. Getting close is better than nothing at all. I looked at the Field literature today and they have a very crude method of getting close to the goal, but it helps. They recommend a .04 over the fire in a coal boiler, but with the efm, it's neg. .02 over the fire.

I want to add that improper draft results in wasted fuel and with coal, a positive draft means CO coming into the house, so it's a somewhat critical measurement.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: e.alleg On: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:30 pm

I'd like to add a quick test to make sure you have enough draft. Open the fire door with the stoker running and see what happens to the fly ash that is sitting on the lip. If it gets sucked in then your OK, there is at least some suction or negative pressure. If it blows out in your face then there definitely is NOT enough draft and it needs to be fixed right away. I mounted my manometer to the side of the boiler so when I do the daily routine I can look at the gauge and see everything is OK, I have 2 arrows one is at .02 the other one .07 so if the fluid is in between at a quick glance it's all good. Really the baro is a set and forget item but the more gauges the better, especially to visitors.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:10 pm

I just got a refill of coal today. 2 tons. I called the dealer last week and inquired if I may borrow their manometer. They said that it was unavailable. :x I asked the deliver guy today, who also owns my same boiler, and told him that my flue pipe is extremely hot. He told me that that was normal. That's the way its supposed to be. :x

I don't know what to think anymore. I believe you guys 100%. I do not believe that my dealer is being a jurk. They're nice people. Could it be that they don't know any better? They are coal dealers. They drive big trucks up to the mines many times every year. When I quizzed them 2yrs ago about how many tons they go through each year, they couldn't answer it. When their bin gets low, they just dump more on top. That's easy to do when you have several hundred tons piled up on the property, but its a different story when you're trying to get the most out of it and save some money.

I am on the loaner manometer waiting list. I can't wait to learn the truth. For me, this is almost like DaVinci's Code! :)
leowis1
 

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: stoker-man On: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:15 pm

Leo, Did your coal usage go down? I just had a call from a man who was running his stoker and using 200# a day and he had no barometric damper installed.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:48 pm

leowis1 wrote: and told him that my flue pipe is extremely hot. He told me that that was normal. That's the way its supposed to be. :x


:lol: I can take video of me touching the pipe if you want.... :P

As far as how much again it "depends", but I'll say it again with a house your size roughly 4-5 tons a year...
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:52 pm

BTW, did you adjust the aquastat as I suggested at the beginning, I've see no mention of that since unless I missed it.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: e.alleg On: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:57 pm

leowis1 wrote:I just got a refill of coal today. 2 tons. I called the dealer last week and inquired if I may borrow their manometer. They said that it was unavailable. :x I asked the deliver guy today, who also owns my same boiler, and told him that my flue pipe is extremely hot. He told me that that was normal. That's the way its supposed to be. :x

I don't know what to think anymore. I believe you guys 100%. I do not believe that my dealer is being a jurk. They're nice people. Could it be that they don't know any better? They are coal dealers. They drive big trucks up to the mines many times every year. When I quizzed them 2yrs ago about how many tons they go through each year, they couldn't answer it. When their bin gets low, they just dump more on top. That's easy to do when you have several hundred tons piled up on the property, but its a different story when you're trying to get the most out of it and save some money.

I am on the loaner manometer waiting list. I can't wait to learn the truth. For me, this is almost like DaVinci's Code! :)



I had a dealer look at my chimney and he said I would be lucky if it had enough draft, them old inside brick chimneys aren't as good as the outside metal ones you know. :roll: None of the coal stove dealers I've visited suggested or even sell barometric dampers, I suspect that they learned long ago that they sell more coal if the customers don't use them.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: What am I doing wrong? Too much coal being used

PostBy: leowis1 On: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:09 pm

Its hard to say, but not really. I would expect to see 1/3rd less ashes in my bucket. And it is a little less, but not as much as I expected. The door on the damper only opens a very little when the stoker is running. Maybe wide enough to insert a nickle. Or a dime. The weight is set on 2 on the horizontal scale. The pipe is still hot north of the damper. Instead of licking your finger after you touch it, you can just pull it away. By no means can you put your whole hand on it.

I have to wait for the manometer. I'm afraid to monkey with the weight on the door because if carbon monoxide leaks into the house, my wife will divorce me! And I'm not home during the day. I do have a smoke/carbon detector right next to the boiler.
leowis1
 

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