Coalgun S500 Project

 
Joseph Leid
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Aug. 28, 2014 12:53 pm
Location: Reinholds pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: S 500 coal gun boiler
Coal Size/Type: Pea coal
Other Heating: Outdoor wood stove

Post by Joseph Leid » Fri. Aug. 29, 2014 4:42 pm

coaledsweat,
This is the thought behind the two vs', open one first and empty it, then do the other.
So yes, sort of like two bins :)


 
lzaharis
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Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Fri. Aug. 29, 2014 4:47 pm

Joseph Leid wrote:Thanks for all your input guys!
I'll try to answer your questions.
1. Our house is approx. 2400 sq' with old windows and poorly insulated. The shop is 60' x 96' with 14' ceiling. We have a 20 HP dust collector outside and no air return which sucks out quite a bit of heat. I plan to use a radiator to heat the exchanged air.
2. As far as draft, I was thinking of installing louvers or vents in the container wall.
3. The chimney, was leaning toward a double wall 6" or 8". Any suggestions?
4. How I will get the coal in the bin, I will have a small door or two on the side of the container to accommodate the coal guys' auger.
5. Wet coal? Do they deliver the coal wet? Is coal "juice" corrosive?
6. As far as the 16' auger and v bin, yes, I was thinking that way, but am getting cold feet on the idea. Leaning toward making two 8' vs' across the container and putting gates where the auger attaches, " our throttle!" as I will only be able to have one open at once or i'm afraid it would jam if I had the two vs' feeding at the same time. Also I don't want to shovel all that coal in order to fix my "automatic coal shovel!" : ;)
7. My Genset I was planning on putting in here is a 50 KW propane onan that will get hooked up to the shop and house. Do more of you guys see a problem with having this in the same container?
I could always slap a "lean-to" to the side of the container?
Thanks mdhorvath for sharing your pics!
Thanks again guys!
Please do not hesitate to ask questions as this is my first coal project and don't want to spend all the time and money and end up flopping!
And yes I'm very excited about using coal!
Joseph
=================================================================================================
First, You need to put the container idea in the center of a circular firing sqaud!!

Second "Most" all coal is delivered wet as it is uncovered in coal stockpiles and you pay for that water too.

You will be much better off putting the boiler in the shop and dumping the coal in a pile by it
and using the small grain auger from AHS with one of the plastic portable grain hoppers at the feed endand simply dumping the coal in it with a wheel barrow(two wheel) to fill the hopper.

Even walling in the boiler in the shop with cinderblock and a fire resistant ceiling and leaving a hole in the block wall for a coal auger will work..

If you have the hopper with the bin limit switch it stops the auger when the electric eye
detects the higher coal level and operates when the low limit of coal is reached(coal removed and burned).

You want a block or brick chimney as the 'steel will not last and corrode out from the resulting chemicals emmited by the coal combustion fumes.

From what I remember they want you to burn dry or near dry coal in these units and no oiled coal.

National plumbing code would not let you install a generator in the same room with a fossil fuel appliance from what I remember. You can buy generator enclosures that are weather proof.

 
Joseph Leid
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Aug. 28, 2014 12:53 pm
Location: Reinholds pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: S 500 coal gun boiler
Coal Size/Type: Pea coal
Other Heating: Outdoor wood stove

Post by Joseph Leid » Sat. Aug. 30, 2014 10:08 am

Hi Guys,
One more thing I would appreciate input on is;
what kind of plastic / tin steel do you guys put on your bin floors to make it slide nicely?
Thanks!
Joseph

 
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lsayre
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Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Sat. Aug. 30, 2014 4:37 pm

Joseph Leid wrote:Hi Guys,
One more thing I would appreciate input on is;
what kind of plastic / tin steel do you guys put on your bin floors to make it slide nicely?
Thanks!
Joseph
Formica type counter-top coating material should work great. This is certain to sound counterintuitive, but one thing I learned when using Formica to coat the bearing surfaces of 'Dobsonian' telescopes is that Formica with a mild stipple texture (lots of small bumps) to it is actually much more slippery (friction free) than dead smooth Formica.

 
Joseph Leid
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Aug. 28, 2014 12:53 pm
Location: Reinholds pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: S 500 coal gun boiler
Coal Size/Type: Pea coal
Other Heating: Outdoor wood stove

Post by Joseph Leid » Tue. Sep. 02, 2014 1:05 pm

Hi Guys!
I found some 3/8" Teflon plastic sheets that I am planning to use to sheet my bin floor with. We are getting all our supplies together and hope to start on the bin end of next week. I will try to share a few pics, if I can figure out how to load them on this forum :confused:

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Tue. Sep. 02, 2014 1:58 pm

Pictures are a must or it didn't happen!!!

Here is a set of instructions for uploading the pics....

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4895

 
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whistlenut
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Location: Central NH, Concord area
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Post by whistlenut » Tue. Sep. 02, 2014 2:32 pm

Teflon sheets...fantastic!! Watch out.....that will be slicker than Whale Snot! Are you going to 'top load' the bin with a loader or auger or conveyor? Don't forget to leave some access to the lower end of the feed auger....just in case. One other thing is that you may want to run some pex around the outside perimeter`(inside walls, obviously....) of the Coal storage area. It might be handy some time during a wet load in the winter. It will be MUCH easier to add now then when 20 tons of slippery coal are on top of the same area. You can conduit protect it and still have similar heat capacity. Just because the container is tight, does not mean that the coal can't freeze or will be steaming with 1/2 mil BTU's close by. You sure need some make-up air, and fresh air for whomever enters the boiler room. As big as 8 by 40 by 8 sounds, you will be shocked at how quickly it disappears when the 'toys' are installed. Also, this is NOT a good place to warm up snow machines, snow throwers, or anything that has combustible fuels in it. PPPPPPPerformance.


 
Joseph Leid
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Aug. 28, 2014 12:53 pm
Location: Reinholds pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: S 500 coal gun boiler
Coal Size/Type: Pea coal
Other Heating: Outdoor wood stove

Post by Joseph Leid » Tue. Sep. 02, 2014 3:59 pm

Thanks "titleist1" for your help! And yes I will sure be taking pics as we get started!

Mr. Whistlenut,
We are putting two small doors, one above each vee. Also I'm looking at putting in a 2' x 2' louvered vent. Adequate???
And as far as the generator, we are looking to slapping up a leanto against the container instead of in the container, thanks to the advise I got here on the forum :)
Should I also vent the bin area?
Also where would you put the pex pipe? Inside the coal bin? Or around the chutes that feed the auger?
Thanks!
Joseph

 
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whistlenut
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Posts: 3548
Joined: Sat. Mar. 17, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: Central NH, Concord area
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska, Gibraltar, Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Post by whistlenut » Tue. Sep. 02, 2014 4:20 pm

I would add the sleeved piping inside the bin and any other place you cannot get at later, easily. The augers should be fine once you are fired up, but you will not be able to get into the lower portion of the bin easily. I like you idea about the lean-to for the generator and you can 'close it in a little' and you will have plenty of heat to let escape. The 2 by 2 is OK, but if you had a double hung window, you could regulate the opening as you needed to. You don't know what the demands will be like, yet, and cutting now is easy.....rather than when wired, piped, reinforced and loaded. I trust you are adding a multiport manifold to accommodate future needs, because that is one hell of a lot cheaper than taking it apart to perform it....especially when it is 20 below, and your container is 140 degrees. You might build a couple lean-to when you get a feel for how much radiant heat you will have. You have a fairly large BTU producer there, so don't forget that part of this deal.

 
Joseph Leid
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Aug. 28, 2014 12:53 pm
Location: Reinholds pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: S 500 coal gun boiler
Coal Size/Type: Pea coal
Other Heating: Outdoor wood stove

Post by Joseph Leid » Tue. Sep. 02, 2014 11:00 pm

Here is a rough sketch of what we are thinking.. two augers, one to get the coal out of the bin, and the other to get it to the boiler. Also will have an auger to get the ashes out.
Problems???
Thanks!
Joseph
sketch.pdf
.PDF | 274KB | sketch.pdf

 
lzaharis
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Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Tue. Sep. 02, 2014 11:55 pm

Joseph Leid wrote:
Here is a rough sketch of what we are thinking..

Two augers, one to get the coal out of the bin, and
the other to get it to the boiler.

Also will have an auger to get the ashes out.
Problems???

Thanks!

Joseph
sketch.pdf
Speaking as someone with 20 plus years of experience with
conveying machinery including augers:

Your going to have problems period.

1. How are you going to maintain an ash auger when
the combustion chamber has to be closed at all times
to work properly? The ash will play havoc on the metal
in the base. there is a reason the bin is in there.

2. About the auger, the problem is that if it breaks at
some point you are in a world of hurt BECAUSE
the auger has to be supported at both ends and
the auger drive will need a reduction gear drive
to move that much coal all at once.

The augers that AHS and Keystoker offer are simple and they feed the
hoppers adequately. does this unit have electric eyes in
the hopper??????

Using a bin inside with a dog house for the auger eliminates the
need for what you are doing period.

You want to make it simple and your not making it simple. Look at the EFM
home page and look at the auger and dog house file for feeding a boiler.

The other issue is BASIC what are you going to do about fire protection????
Your insurer will look at what your doing and they will say we will not cover
anything because of the design and the lack of access for fire supression
and fire fighting and having the gas fired generator next to the fossil fuel
appliance is going to be a big problem.

You need to talk to your insurance agent before you dive in to this mess
and talk to AHS about coal feeding a 500 with an auger and building of
your design.

I would and will candidly say your insurer would not underwrite your
home and shop because of the design.

If you have to feed the coal by buckets when an auger is broken how are
you going to manage it???????

The other issue is the two bins you are proposing they are going to be considered
enclosed spaces and you will have a big problem on your hands because of federal regulations with regard to bins and silos.

That is why I suggested putting the boiler inside with a cinderblock wall and fireproof
ceiling with an auger passing through the cinder block wall to the hopper.

these boiler are used to heat water for laundries and large green houses. I would
call AHS as soon as possible because it has to comply with National Plumbing Code.

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Wed. Sep. 03, 2014 7:31 am

lzaharis wrote:and having the gas fired generator next to the fossil fuel
appliance is going to be a big problem.
I believe he indicated his propane generator is going in a lean to outside the boiler building.

This did get me thinking though.....My insurance company & AHJ is fine with having a coal stove / stoker in the same basement as a propane dryer, propane water heater and propane furnace. I am curious why a propane generator with proper exhaust venting would be a problem when these co-located propane appliances are fine?

 
Joseph Leid
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Aug. 28, 2014 12:53 pm
Location: Reinholds pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: S 500 coal gun boiler
Coal Size/Type: Pea coal
Other Heating: Outdoor wood stove

Post by Joseph Leid » Wed. Sep. 03, 2014 7:46 am

Thanks for all the response.
lzaharis, would you mind sending over the link for the bin designs etc. I was unable to locate it on the efm sites I was on.
And yes, the generator is going to be an outdoor farm dog :)
As far as the augers feeding speed, I was planning to have gates on the bottom of the chutes. The long auger would be supported all the way.
Also I have water piped into the container which we attach a sprinkler or two to.
But a much simpler plan to store coal sounds very attractive. You wouldn't be able to sketch something up???
Thanks!
Joseph

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Wed. Sep. 03, 2014 7:53 am

Joseph Leid....A couple questions....
Is this sea container going inside your shop building? I was thinking it was outside next to your buildings.

Is the width of the coal bin the complete width of the sea container or do you have the bin portion walled off with a large enough space to walk between the bin wall and sea container wall to get access to the auger?

It looks like your auger is perpendicular to the slope of the coal bin, am I interpreting your sketch correctly?

 
Joseph Leid
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Aug. 28, 2014 12:53 pm
Location: Reinholds pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: S 500 coal gun boiler
Coal Size/Type: Pea coal
Other Heating: Outdoor wood stove

Post by Joseph Leid » Wed. Sep. 03, 2014 9:20 am

sketch (2).pdf
.PDF | 217.5KB | sketch (2).pdf
Here is the end view of the container. The container is outside. Hope this will clarify!
As far as a wall, not in the plans as of yet. We will have a small crawl space on the bottom :)
Thanks!
Joseph


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