Refurbished Boilers

Hello,

This is my first contribution....but I've been lurking for a year or so. I'm about to build a chimney and would like to install the boiler summer 2015. You guys (and a few gals I assume!) have an absurd amount of knowledge that I'd like to tap into. I've done pretty extensive research on a variety of boilers and have a total heat loss in my home of 100k BTU (including 15% error margin). This figure includes a small addition I am planning in the next 4-6 years. I live in far northern maine (just outside of presque isle) and our winters are insane. My home is about 2000 square feet, old, but fairly insulated. WIth the addition it will be 2500 +/- sq feet. I also might install a modine to head a small work shop. I also have 2 young daughters so..I'll be needing some serious hot water in a few years. So although I probably need 100k, at peak times I may 130-140 k or so. I currently heat with an ancient hand fired furnace. I've narrowed my boiler choices down to a Keystoker KB-8 or an EFM 520. There is an awesome coal/boiler dealer in easton maine, So I'll have no problem getting good coal and service on either of these.

My questions are: I am building a block chimney (26 feet) inside of my 1 car garage (which will become a boiler room). The Keystoker requires a 9 inch flue. Is an 8 inch square flue likely to provide enough draft, or should I plan on a 8 by 13?

Secondly, the Keystoker is considerably less expensive than the EFM....but I really want an EFM...they are simply awesome. So my second questions is-Who are the most reputable refurbishers OF EFM boilers. I require a Dual Fuel (only for when I go on trips). Most of the refurbished units I have seen on craigslist etc are in Pennsylvania, and they usually range from 3500-5000....which is a great price (and look great), but what might the freight be from pennsylvania to northern maine (estimated). If it is too expensive....might as well go new.

P.S. I have not checked in yet with my local dealer, but thought that with the vat of knowledge here...I might as well check in first!

thanks

Figure shipping @ $125.00. (likely less than your fuel costs if you were to get it yourself)

really???? only $125....hmmm outstanding!

coldinmaine wrote:really???? only $125....hmmm outstanding!

I have used this with great success.

https://www.fastenal.com/web/en/22/third-party-lo ... -%283pl%29

coldinmaine wrote:My questions are: I am building a block chimney (26 feet) inside of my 1 car garage (which will become a boiler room). The Keystoker requires a 9 inch flue. Is an 8 inch square flue likely to provide enough draft, or should I plan on a 8 by 13?

Secondly, the Keystoker is considerably less expensive than the EFM....but I really want an EFM...they are simply awesome. So my second questions is-Who are the most reputable refurbishers OF EFM boilers. I require a Dual Fuel (only for when I go on trips). Most of the refurbished units I have seen on craigslist etc are in Pennsylvania, and they usually range from 3500-5000....which is a great price (and look great), but what might the freight be from pennsylvania to northern maine (estimated). If it is too expensive....might as well go new.

Normally the chimney flue is considerably larger than the stovepipe feeding it, I would go with the 8X13.

You really want the EFM so that's the one you go with. These beasts are very robust, buying new just drives up your costs. There are not a lot of appliances that last for a man's lifetime. Anthracite boilers are one of the few.

EFM's SMOKE the competition
W00t W00t

EFM recommends an 8x8" flue. I am not sure what Keystoker recommends for the K8, it would be best to call them.

There are lots of guys selling refurbished DF520's, but not many of the units include a complete oil package. Be sure to specify that when you ask for a price. At a minimum you need the burner, burner mounting flange that goes on the side of the boiler, and the insulation that goes inside the base. Wiring may or may not be included depending on who removed the unit.

Another option would be to install an oil boiler, perhaps you have room for one (or already have one) in the basement. Lots of people are converting to natural gas and propane, and used oil boilers (some times only a few years old) are selling cheap.

Finding dual fuel is the tough one ...I'll call keystoker before I start building the chimney to make sure about the dimensions ...I appreciate the help

coldinmaine wrote:I've done pretty extensive research on a variety of boilers and have a total heat loss in my home of 100k BTU (including 15% error margin). This figure includes a small addition I am planning in the next 4-6 years. I live in far northern maine (just outside of presque isle) and our winters are insane. My home is about 2000 square feet, old, but fairly insulated. WIth the addition it will be 2500 +/- sq feet. I also might install a modine to head a small work shop. I also have 2 young daughters so..I'll be needing some serious hot water in a few years. So although I probably need 100k, at peak times I may 130-140 k or so. I currently heat with an ancient hand fired furnace. I've narrowed my boiler choices down to a Keystoker KB-8 or an EFM 520.

I would suggest checking the quantity of installed radiation you have to verify that it, plus the modine, plus the DHW load can be carried by the boiler you select. Most people on the forum would say KB-8's and 520's are very capable boilers, and they would be correct. However, those people are not trying to heat a substantial house and shop near Presque Isle, ME, while trying to prepare for the DHW load imposed by teenagers. IIRC, it takes about 40k btu/hr to sustain a 1 gpm flow of 120 deg DHW under the assumption that your incoming fresh water is at 50 deg (and I'm guessing yours might be a little cooler than that ). The boiler cares only indirectly about your computed heat loss; if it can't carry the radiation (including pickup factor to account for distribution losses) and DHW loads you put on it, it may provide unsatisfactory performance in many ways (as documented in many forum threads started during cold spells ).

I'm not saying those boilers wouldn't do the job. I'm saying a little more figuring is needed to be sure they would.

Mike

Cool...can these boilers "over fire" for short amounts of time?

coldinmaine wrote:Cool...can these boilers "over fire" for short amounts of time?

What do you mean?

Can they produce heat over rated capacity for a short period of time at decreased efficiency?

coldinmaine wrote:Can they produce heat over rated capacity for a short period of time at decreased efficiency?

It might happen, but IMO you can't really control or count on it. Some of the old-school ratings are kind of conservative (e.g., based on high assumed pick-up factors), and it's plausible they could be exceeded under some circumstances in practice. On the other hand, some of the newer ratings tend to be pretty optimistic, sometimes to the point of being close to unattainable. In other threads there have been discussions of many factors that sometimes cause cause boilers to come up a little short on rated output - bad batch of coal, fuel/air mix out of adjustment, ash accumulation on heat exchange surfaces, etc. Some people find it acceptable to need supplemental heat from other sources under heavy loads, while others favor varying degrees of capacity overkill. Personally, I favor overkill, but you need to decide what works for you.

Mike

Good points....easier to damp down and have enough than try to work one too hard!

2500 sq. ft....if you can't heat that with a 520 you better start looking for missing doors and windows.

As for the domestic hot water boiler load, it may or may not be significant depending on how your have the system hooked up. It also depends on your water usage pattern. A 2 hour shower with a water saver shower head is no big deal, but filling a soaker tub with a fast-fill fixture will really "slam" the boiler if you are heating the water on demand. I have used a tankless coil, and later switched to an indirect water heater. When using the tankless coil I had to run the stoker at a feed rate 50% higher to keep up. It is amazing how fast you can pull heat out of the boiler with a coil, especially if the incoming water temperature is chilly like Mike mentioned. My indirect water heater is an 80 gallon unit, so it has plenty of buffer for periods of high water consumption. I piped it to the boiler with 3/4" piping, knowing that would reduce the output capability of the indirect, but also limit the load it put on the boiler. Basically it levels out the load. The system easily handles the normal demands of the four of us, and doesn't flinch when the in-laws visit and we have 6 people in the house.