Charter Oak #24 - Can This Burn Coal ?

Buck47 · Post by **Buck47** » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 9:04 pm

nortcan wrote:Thanks John for the infos. Very interesting , on the video, do you burn anthracite?
And hummmm if one of these days you have some spare time, it would be very interesting to see more viewing angles of the burning fire, as you said on the right, left and all the possible ways to see again that **magnifique** burning fire.

nortcan,

Yes I do burn Anthracite - nut size.

I buy from an Amish neighbor who trucks it in to heat hoop style green houses during the winter and sells the small plants come spring.

Fact is this is my first winter heating with coal, I'm amazed with how little care is required and what an addictive/ enjoyable activity it is.
Coupled with the help & comradery I enjoy on NEPA I'm having a great deal of fun.

As far as a follow up video? I've been wanting to do a video record on how I run this stove, so as to have a record next year to use as a refresher next fall.

I do need to refine the loading process after I've been running at idle, for me that's the only "tricky bit" firing this stove, during the cold days winter is easy as you have seen in the video.

I will give you a special "shout out" when I post it.

Thank you for your interest. Regards: john

Buck47 · Post by **Buck47** » Wed. Mar. 11, 2015 4:18 pm

It took the machine shop six months to return my grate project for the Charter Oak #24.

The original grates where damaged beyond repair as pictured in previous post. Charter Oak #24 - Can This Burn Coal ?

I purchased a set of grates the same size and length but with different ends. Had the machine shop cut off the end pieced from my original grates and index them to the new set of grates.

Index Ends exchanged out &fitted

.JPG | 130KB | Index End C Grates (b).JPG

The replacement grates where purchased from Woodman's Stove Parts East Wakefield, New Hampshireare are very low quality, and will need much work - grinding, sanding and polishing before sending off to the foundry. The boys at the machine shop said they where the worst cast work they had ever seen. And I agree I was disappointed in what was shipped to me.

Trial Fit

.JPG | 152.2KB | Trial Fit Grates.JPG

That being said, They can be make into a very serviceable set of new grates and I can start burning coal in a nice vintage parlor stove.

These will be kept as a pattern for future replacements.

Photog200 · Post by **Photog200** » Wed. Mar. 11, 2015 4:48 pm

Buck47 wrote:
The replacement grates where purchased from Woodman's Stove Parts East Wakefield, New Hampshireare are very low quality, and will need much work - grinding, sanding and polishing before sending off to the foundry. The boys at the machine shop said they where the worst cast work they had ever seen. And I agree I was disappointed in what was shipped to me.

They do look like a pretty rough casting. The guys from 100 years ago who originally made these stoves would probably roll over in their graves if they saw this kind of workmanship.

Randy

joeq · Post by **joeq** » Wed. Mar. 11, 2015 5:33 pm

I wonder if it was a one-off defect, or does all Woodsman grates have these flaws? Too bad you can return them for a better set.

Buck47 · Post by **Buck47** » Wed. Mar. 11, 2015 6:24 pm

Photog200 wrote:
Buck47 wrote:
The replacement grates where purchased from Woodman's Stove Parts East Wakefield, New Hampshireare are very low quality, and will need much work - grinding, sanding and polishing before sending off to the foundry. The boys at the machine shop said they where the worst cast work they had ever seen. And I agree I was disappointed in what was shipped to me.
They do look like a pretty rough casting. The guys from 100 years ago who originally made these stoves would probably roll over in their graves if they saw this kind of workmanship.

Randy

Night & day difference with the 100 year old original casting and the ones shipped from Woodman's. The original grates are smooth with no sand marks, even the inside of the V shape is smooth. I'm using a sanding disk & new carbide die grinder bits and it's slow going bringing them close to original condition. I've see photos from members of parts as they come back from Tomahawk or other foundries and the parts have a professional look to them. Smooth and clean looking.

I know I will go to great lengths not to put myself in a position where I need to buy from Woodman's Stove Parts again.

Anyway, with a few hours time and some fun tools they are starting to come out of the "Cheap China Foundry induced Coma"

(Or if your looking for an acronym - Simply, hideous, inept, technique.)

and become a work of art.

KingCoal · Post by **KingCoal** » Wed. Mar. 11, 2015 6:46 pm

NICE, I think the Charter Oak is going to be splendid.

did you give the fire pot dimensions some where ? trying to figure it's capacity.

steve

Buck47 · Post by **Buck47** » Wed. Mar. 11, 2015 7:21 pm

KingCoal wrote:NICE, I think the Charter Oak is going to be splendid.

did you give the fire pot dimensions some where ? trying to figure it's capacity.

steve

Hi Steve: I owned it for a good 10 years, always enjoyed the proportions and overall look of this stove. It was William who identified it as a Anthracite coal stove. I'm looking forward to having it back in use again, I've never burned coal in it, so it will be a new adventure.

Regards: john

The fire pot is an oval shape top is 18L X 8W tapering down to 16LX6W depth is 7 inches

I'm thinking a 40 pound load - 30 pounds with a one inch liner

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Wed. Mar. 11, 2015 8:50 pm

Much better, but what about the areas lacking enough material. Are you going to build those up ?

Paul

Buck47 · Post by **Buck47** » Wed. Mar. 11, 2015 9:00 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Much better, but what about the areas lacking enough material. Are you going to build those up ?

Paul

Which areas are you referring to Paul?

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2015 7:48 am

Buck47 wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Much better, but what about the areas lacking enough material. Are you going to build those up ?

Paul
Which areas are you referring to Paul?

John,
I noticed some rather thin areas at the upper left edge of the upper grate in this, your second picture.
Paul

Buck47 · Post by **Buck47** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2015 9:22 am

Sunny Boy wrote:
John,
I noticed some rather thin areas at the upper left edge of the upper grate in this, your second picture.
Paul

Paul, Yes those area's will be filled and smoothed in with epoxy. The more I work on these the more I find places that need attention.

This is one of those jobs that takes many hours and lots of patience.

Let me ask you. How do I get a final smooth polish to the metal after the carbide die grinder bits. The carbide bit leave it somewhat smooth - however it's not quite as smooth as the original castings.

Would stone wheels do the job? If so what kind do I purchase? And where?

Thanks: john

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2015 12:02 pm

Buck47 wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:
John,
I noticed some rather thin areas at the upper left edge of the upper grate in this, your second picture.
Paul
Paul, Yes those area's will be filled and smoothed in with epoxy. The more I work on these the more I find places that need attention.

This is one of those jobs that takes many hours and lots of patience.

Let me ask you. How do I get a final smooth polish to the metal after the carbide die grinder bits. The carbide bit leave it somewhat smooth - however it's not quite as smooth as the original castings.

Would stone wheels do the job? If so what kind do I purchase? And where?

Thanks: john

I wouldn't use epoxy as a filler. It clogs sand paper and rasp type files, way too easily. Very frustrating to shape and sand.

For filling and sculpting castings for patterns, I use autobody "plastic fillers" aka Bondo. Use the "lightweight" type if you can find it. It has good enough adhesion on clean bare steel for what your doing. It is easily roughed to shape with cheese grater files, or I prefer to use woodworking rasps such as a carpenter's "four-in-hand" rasp available in the tool departments of hardware and box stores. Use a stiff wire brush to keep the rasp teeth clear. Then using various grades of sandpaper to final shape and finish.

For filling grinding marks, a high-build sanding primer such as autobody "primer/surfacer " .

For deep grinding marks, say like the width of a pencil line or larger, autobody "spot putty" .

All three of those can be used to easily fill anything you've got there. And all three are meant to be sanded - epoxies are not.

Paul

Buck47 · Post by **Buck47** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2015 1:04 pm

Buck47 wrote:
Let me ask you. How do I get a final smooth polish to the metal after the carbide die grinder bits. The carbide bit leave it somewhat smooth - however it's not quite as smooth as the original castings.

Would stone wheels do the job? If so what kind do I purchase? And where?

Paul wrote:I wouldn't use epoxy as a filler. It clogs sand paper and rasp type files, way too easily. Very frustrating to shape and sand.

For filling and sculpting castings for patterns, I use autobody "plastic fillers" aka Bondo. Use the "lightweight" type if you can find it. It has good enough adhesion on clean bare steel for what your doing. It is easily roughed to shape with cheese grater files, or I prefer to use woodworking rasps such as a carpenter's "four-in-hand" rasp available in the tool departments of hardware and box stores. Use a stiff wire brush to keep the rasp teeth clear. Then using various grades of sandpaper to final shape and finish.

For filling grinding marks, a high-build sanding primer such as autobody "primer/surfacer " .

For deep grinding marks, say like the width of a pencil line or larger, autobody "spot putty" .

All three of those can be used to easily fill anything you've got there. And all three are meant to be sanded - epoxies are not. Paul

Paul,

Your response is Clear, concise and direct as always. In my minds eye, I could see myself doing the works as I read your directions.

Thanks Bud, you save me many hours of frustration, and now I'll end up with a quality pattern to send to the foundry.

Regards: john

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2015 2:00 pm

John,
Your welcome.

Something to keep in mind.

You may get those pattern pieces glass-smooth, but the casting sand grit-size that the foundry uses will determine final finish. If you want as smooth a finish as possible, you might want to first discuss with Al at Tomahawk how fine grit the sand is that he can use.

To give you some idea. I sent out pattern pieces that had some very smooth, original surfaces, such as the gear (cog) faces and areas I had built up with plastic filler and sanded with 100 grit. Then several coats of high-build epoxy primer to seal and further "fatten" the parts to help compensate for shrinkage, made them even smoother.

While I'm very pleased with Tomahawk's work, the parts that came back were not quite as smooth as the smoothest areas of the patterns. The originally rougher areas of the grate bars - the sides of the grate teeth - turned out to have the same texture on the finished parts.

Here's two pictures below to give you some idea of the texture that my new grates and gears came back with.

The third picture was taken yesterday. Now that I have good working grates to take more heat load off the house furnace, I've been running the range much harder/hotter - in the 750 to 800F+ at the top plates - since September. It warmed up the past two days so I let the stove go out yesterday to clean the flues and also see how well the new grate bars have held up with such higher temps.

Other than an expected color change, they show no signs of having worn, burned, cracked, warped, or any other problems.

Paul

wsherrick · Post by **wsherrick** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2015 2:08 pm

Man Paul, those grates look wonderful after a hard winter of use. I would be pleased with their performance. It's amazing the work some of you are capable of.
When I get my Packard Boat Tail Roadster, I'm going to let you restore it.

Charter Oak #24 - Can This Burn Coal ?

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