Mr. Herald Install UPDATE!!! Am I Forgetting Any Thing?

You are assuming it has been blocked off. It could be simply jammed. It looks like a screw is wedged in the top of that worm at the upper brace. See if you can get that damper open. Pry up with a screwdriver at the bottom while trying to turn that worm, even a little. Give it a spray with some WD40 or other rust penetrating fluid. Work the mechanism to see where it is jammed. Have good light to see by. If all else fails a 3 pound sledge would make short work of it. Once open you can see any rubble and with a mirror in daylight might be able to see up the chimney.

Are you proposing to go up through that damper or through a hole farther up into the chimney?

I going to tell you right now, in no uncertain terms. You DO NOT need a stainless steel liner. This is become an almost ubiquitous scam by chimney sweeps and stove stores.
You don't need one.
They are just trying to get your money.
I don't know how to make it any more blunt than that.

I am truly sorry you are forced to put up with these fools.
Is there no one else besides them?

Unc...as Franco says...open that damper thingy up and put an eyeball on the chimney interior. It's the only way you will know what your dealing with.

I would take a chisel and cut that rotating shaft, thereby freeing up the damper. I can see from the picture that there is stuff on the other side of it waiting to fall down.
I would have a dust mask on when I opened it up.

Edit: Looking at the damper, I see a cotter pin stuck in there. I wonder if you got some pliers and pulled out that pin if that would release the damper from the shaft.

Well if I could understand the purpose of the liner that would help. Because I thought one major purpose of the liner was to ensure that the harmful chemicals/smoke & carbon monoxide would not re-enter the home from a un-lined portion of the chimney. Correct me if I'm wrong here. That would be my biggest concern.

franco b wrote:You are assuming it has been blocked off. It could be simply jammed.

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The damper will not open because of the wood mantel in direct path of the damper opener as shown in the picture.

franco b wrote: See if you can get that damper open. Pry up with a screwdriver at the bottom while trying to turn that worm, even a little.

Don't think I wanna do that because #1 There's no telling the last time it has been opened. Therefore, there's no telling how much debris is up there. And since I'd be getting it installed through a hole farther up into the chimney. There may not be a reason to even worry about opening the damper.

wsherrick wrote:
I am truly sorry you are forced to put up with these fools.
Is there no one else besides them?

This is the 4th or 5th company I am trying.

UncleDoDat wrote:Well if I could understand the purpose of the liner that would help. Because I thought one major purpose of the liner was to ensure that the harmful chemicals/smoke & carbon monoxide would not re-enter the home from a un-lined portion of the chimney. Correct me if I'm wrong here. That would be my biggest concern.

franco b wrote:You are assuming it has been blocked off. It could be simply jammed.

IMG_20140622_164743.jpg

The damper will not open because of the wood mantel in direct path of the damper opener as shown in the picture.

franco b wrote: See if you can get that damper open. Pry up with a screwdriver at the bottom while trying to turn that worm, even a little.

Don't think I wanna do that because #1 There's no telling the last time it has been opened. Therefore, there's no telling how much debris is up there. And since I'd be getting it installed through a hole farther up into the chimney. There may not be a reason to even worry about opening the damper.

wsherrick wrote:
I am truly sorry you are forced to put up with these fools.
Is there no one else besides them?

This is the 4th or 5th company I am trying.

The liner helps in a number of ways. It helps insulate the chimney, protects the bricks from combustion products and weather erosion. And with wood burning fireplaces it helps prevent creosote soaking/traveling through brick gaps that can be a fire path to the wood framing if you ever have a chimney fire.

As far as leaking fumes into the house, usually, with the chimney being warmer, it draws air into the chimney rather than pushing fumes out any gaps in the house.

I have three 100 + year old unlined brick chimneys. This house belonged to a secession of local coal dealers with a coal furnace and a coal hot water heater in the basement, and a coal kitchen range at the back of the house. I've never cleaned the coal range chimney. I just shovel about a small bucket of fly ash each year out of the bottom clean out door.

The chimney that's in the roughest shape is not the wood burning fireplace, or the coal kitchen range, it's the one that has had an oil burner hooked up to it for decades.

Paul

With that being said I'll opt for no liner, but let's say I had to burn wood for some strange reason. Wouldn't that be harmful to an unlined chimney?

UncleDoDat wrote:With that being said I'll opt for no liner, but let's say I had to burn wood for some strange reason. Wouldn't that be harmful to an unlined chimney?

Hasn't had much affect on my 100+ year old fireplace. Built in 1892 and still unlined.

The worry with wood is like I said, creosote soaking into cracks/gaps in the bricks can be a fire path during a chimney fire - like a burning fuse. If you burn wood, keep the chimney properly cleaned and you don't have that risk.

Paul

Sunny Boy wrote:

UncleDoDat wrote:With that being said I'll opt for no liner, but let's say I had to burn wood for some strange reason. Wouldn't that be harmful to an unlined chimney?

Hasn't had much affect on my 100+ year old fireplace. Built in 1892 and still unlined.

The worry with wood is like I said, creosote soaking into cracks/gaps in the bricks can be a fire path during a chimney fire - like a burning fuse. If you burn wood, keep the chimney properly cleaned and you don't have that risk.

Paul

It doesn't look like there has been a fire in that fireplace in 50 years if it had one in it. I would bet that chimney is in pretty good shape.

Is that a fireplace?

The fire box has regular bricks. I wonder if that damper is a openable clean out for a chimney that originally used a thimble hook up for a stove?

Maybe there are the remnants of a thimble behind the wood trim below the mantle or plaster/sheetrock above the mantle?

Unc,

Can you post a pic just to the right hand side of the screw?

scalabro wrote:Is that a fireplace?

The fire box has regular bricks. I wonder if that damper is a openable clean out for a chimney that originally used a thimble hook up for a stove?

Maybe there are the remnants of a thimble behind the wood trim below the mantle or plaster/sheetrock above the mantle?

Unc,

Can you post a pic just to the right hand side of the screw?

is that good or are you talk about the wall to the right of the screw?
That is the same thing that I was thinking. The hearth is so small and that is not fire brick. So I too envisioned some type of stove siting there also. Probably not quite as big as Mr. Herald. But I just can't imagine what the use of the fireplace would have been without a stove.

Could chimney fire even happen in one of these BB type stoves burning wood?

Need to find some pictures. I'm not going on my roof until it stops raining, if I can't find the originals. Hopefully the pictures will help you understand more about chimneys. Matt

Edit: Here's the clay lined flue my oak forty is in. Original cookstove flue. The second picture is the new thimble in the cellar. Kind of irrevelent, but the more you know the better off you are. When my neighbor punched a hole in the chimney for the thimble we were greeted with a ash waterfall. Took two (50) gallon trash bags of ash out of the chimney. For some reason this flue never had a cleanout. When day breaks (and if stops pouring) I'll get pictures of the other chimney and flues. Point being the clay lined flues are fine. Except the one the oil burner is in. These chimneys are almost fifty years older than yours. The first chimney sweep that tried selling me a S/S liner even commented on how good the clay looked. I learned alot about chimneys real quick.

Regarding old chimneys, my house was built in 1895. The chimney that I have my coal stove hooked up to is two course brick, no clay liner, no ss liner, no nothing except the original brick. It's clean with some kind of dark soot coating that wipes off with your finger. The morter is a bit dried out and sandy but other than that it burns great.

The point was made that coal stove exhaust is no where near the temp of a wood fire. True true true.

Open that flue plate and get whatever that is out of your chimney, shove a stove pipe up there, block off around it and burn those black rocks! What's the worst that can happen, you have to install a liner? The best is you don't need a liner. You won't know until you open that puppy up. Do it yourself and save the bucks for buying some coal.

I would rip the wood mantle off & see what is behind there,..... a hidden thimble??? Maybe more brick ?? It would look better & be safer with a stone or brick facade anyway,just my opinion.

The bricks in that fireplace are shale bricks, and not the much earlier clay common bricks. Shale bricks, for the most part, replaced clay bricks when when the old coal fired clay brick plants were shut down. Point being, I really believe that the fireplace is much newer than the house; and would venture a guess that it is flue lined and in good shape. Also I could not see any sign of there ever being a fire in it.
Windyhill has a very good point.