Smarthome Thermostat?

Hi I read up on the one post on this topic here:
Nest Thermostat

But don't think it applies to me. I have an Alaska Kast Konsole III with a Rheostat that controls the Fans and Feeder speed all on the same dial. Since this is controlled with a Rheostat that increases/decreases voltage to fan and feeder motor which I am guessing is 120 VAC can one of these thermostats work? Like the nest or I also found one made by Insteon:
http://www.insteon.com/thermostats.html#thermostatFamily2

What are your guys thoughts?

I am curious how he got it to work and how the statement was made in the above thread that most stoves use a 24Volt control voltage. I didn't post there because that thread is almost a year old and lots of things have developed since then and this should be doable. I really like the fact that I want to start adding things to a hub to start my beginning a smarthome installation. Thanks for any and all input guys! Love this forum!

Dave

Hello Dave,
I don't have a need for and Insteon thermostat but I have a bought so I'll just comment on the few components from the folks at Smarthome I'm using. Give the tech people a call and they should be able to help answer your questions. I've got a few x10 lights, switches, and motion detectors but the X10 (line signals only) does not reliably activate a switch that's on a different leg even though I have a bridge installed. A few years back I bought one Insteon (RF and line signals that repeat) switch, 2 access points and motion detector which works well. I just bought several more switches and motion detectors that will eventually replace the X10 motion detectors. The X10 motion detectors do wear out (first set lasted ~10 years) and I can't find the same model from Leviton any longer and will swing the system over to Insteon components.

I don't know if the thermostat would work with a rheostat equipped stove. You'd probably have to rewire for thermostat control or keep the rheo at max and wire in a low voltage relay to couple the rheo and new 24V thermostat. Hopefully someone with more experience and expertise will chime in soon.

I don't mind rewiring, and the Insteon has 2 channels so I can control Fans on one and the feeder on another. Or if I can at the least turn it UP or down to several presets I can save I would consider. THanks for the reply, I am hoping that someone here has dove into this and will share what they came up with, Thanks again.

I have researched this and have a parts list. I am going to do it
I am going with the HoneyWell LYric thermostat, to control my Alaska Channing III.



The Parts list I have so far is a 12"X12"X4" Project box---> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AAU5D6Q/ref=wl_it_dp_ ... S75D&psc=1

3- 24 VAC small ice cube relays contact rating is good for 5A---> http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-24VAC-WP16 ... pp%3Dfalse

A 24VAC 40va Transformer to power the T-Stat and Relays---> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K2EC7K/ref=wl_it_dp_ ... 75G2XIEEJS

A 3 Amp fuse and holder, 3 Rheostats and a Rocker Switch on the side of the box to turn it off when loading coal...

Now, here's the plan: The Lyric has 4 functions as well as learning and GeoFencing(Will turn the T-Stat up when your "X Miles" from home heading in from work and learns routines which I may or may not play with.
The Thermostat will be powered with the 24 volt transformer as well as the 3 24 volt relays. The Rheostats will be 3 knobs located on the outside of the door of the Box mounted on the wall next to the stove.
I am going to use 4 settings: Low, Medium, High, and Off and here's how:

When the Thermostat is happy, "Off" the Stove with be on the low setting: Relay 1 will be dropped and stove will be fed through N/C contacts on relay 1then through Rheostat 1 so you can set the temp and forget it.

When the Thermostat is "On", Relay 1 picked then Stove will be on Medium through N/O contacts and Rheostat 2 will be set so that stove is on your medium setting.

The Thermostat has an "Aux" witch is programmable to fire to kick on an Auxiliary heat pump to assist the furnace, and this is set to kick on if the room temp does not reach the desired temp in "X" amount of minutes. This will fire relay 2 and go through Rheostat 3 on the door for your high setting.

To turn the stove off if you notice that the stove is running too hot or went out simply set the A/C on manually, and it will pick relay 3 turning stove off completely. Do this from your smartphone, or T-Stat as well as manually putting it on whatever setting you want if need be.

Now we can go out for a day or so and set it on low, and then turn it back to normal a few hours before heading back home, or monitor it if we are out with piece of mind to know everything is good back at the home.

I have yet to pick out the 3 rheostats to mount in the box yet and I'm open to suggestions on that. I plan on ordering everything very soon. For the ones out there wondering why I am going to this length when I can buy a Coal Trol, I would buy one if it was available with wifi and internet access. But looks like Grand total will be 200-225 making it cheaper so far.

Thanks for any input you guys have!

highrise wrote:I have researched this and have a parts list. I am going to do it
I am going with the HoneyWell LYric thermostat, to control my Alaska Channing III.
.............. For the ones out there wondering why I am going to this length when I can buy a Coal Trol, I would buy one if it was available with wifi and internet access. But looks like Grand total will be 200-225 making it cheaper so far.

Thanks for any input you guys have!

While I applaud your efforts and desire to make this smartphone capable, I have a few observations. I changed my sister in law's Alaska over to a coaltrol. You would definitely need to control the fans with 110v control. There are no relays for them.

Have you given any thought to how long it takes coal to respond to changes in temp settings ?? Coal is not like bumping up the oil, propane, or gas burners for that quick rise in temps. I had a coaltrol on a Hyfire II at my work location. The issue there is that it was a brick and block wall construction. Once those walls got cold, it took a long time for them to warm back up again. And a hell of a lot longer than using my NG Infrared heaters. I could not use the set back feature on the coaltrol as ramping the temps back up at 0400 to open the building at 0730, the Hyfire II was still cranking at FR 99 at 1100.

So how long does it take for you to increase the temp in your house 3 degrees using the coal heater only ???? This should gve you some idea on how long you need to reheat the house before arriving home.

For a lot of us, there is really no benefit to using set back temps when operating a coal burning appliance.

Rick

Hi, well the combustion fan will be on steady all the time for a clean burn while the stove is on. The other 2 will be on the rheostat respective to which mode they are on along with the pusher plate. Just like if you were to turn the factory rheostat, except in this case there will be 3. Only thing I'm changing from factory is the combustion fan, as when it is on low, the coal doesn't burn very clean or completely with that fan on low, even with the plenum and every thing clean in the beginning of the year, so it will allow for a nice clean burn by having that fan around 80 percent all the time.

I live in a 2 story 2100 Sq/Ft Ranch home with 2 registers, one above the stove, and one at the opposite end of the house for cooler air to return to the basement in a convection type fashion. It takes about 30 minutes to come up 2 degrees if you put the stove on full tilt, so I will be putting the Aux setting which is "High" at 60 minutes, so if it doesn't come up 4 degrees,(2 degrees more than it is supposed to swing) than that will tell it that it needs the extra snot.

I will experiment with a 65 degree "not at home" setting and see how it goes and if it's worth it, I may just her to 69 and forget it, I'm not sure, but I look forward to seeing which ways same me the most money/labor.

Thanks for the input!

Looking for a little support here from you guys

Looking to control the pusher plate/fans and I assume that I can put convection fan and pusher motor on same rheostat, or no?

Also, in another thread Old Alaska Kodiak Stoker II Rebuild the factory LL rheostat rated for 3 amps is this one:

http://www.galco.com/buy/KB-Electronics/KBMS-13BV ... AlSa8P8HAQ

But I read several people from online distributors that said it only worked for a few months, to it popped and sparks flew out after it ran a few weeks. Some said it's fine, and others say that you have to tap it when it stops working.

Now, I found this AC motor control:

http://www.amazon.com/50-220V-2000W-Motor-Speed-C ... ql_qh_dp_t

Good reviews and rated at 18 Amps...Hmmm What do you guys think?

Want to get all material together this week

Well Box is wired up mostly, going to tie in the Lyric and adjust it up tomorrow, I'm off to spend some quality family time and eat some Triptofans (Sleepy stuff in turkey!)

I'm interested to see how the Lyric functions for this application. No doubt the thermostat is loaded with great features and functionality, my only concern is that it may be a bit buggy still.

highrise wrote:Looking for a little support here from you guys

Now, I found this AC motor control:

http://www.amazon.com/50-220V-2000W-Motor-Speed-C ... ql_qh_dp_t

Good reviews and rated at 18 Amps...Hmmm What do you guys think?

Shaded pole motor will not like the PWM from the Amazon page referenced above:

Does anyone know what the POT/rheostat is for? Is it for minimum voltage at lowest setting? (to prevent stalled motor) Also, what is Max. amperage it handles?

A:
This controller is ONLY for use with brush wound motors or incandescent lights. The POT adjusts the speed of a brush wound motor or the brightness of a incandescent flood light. This controller can handle an astounding 16.5 amps of 120 volt AC current.

I have good success using this...do not size it too close to your Amps needed, if it is close go up to the next size.

http://www.kbelectronics.com/kbsearch/description ... wc_15k.htm

A brushed motor is DC and this an AC digital rheostat. Don't sound like you got that info from anywhere good, I will bet you definitely didn't get that from the manufacturers site. I ran it and tested their temps while low and high motor stayed cool and drew an amp on high and .7 on low with me trying to stall the motor with no issues. I think pulse modulation would be best for our situation as torque is important!

I think you find you will use just as much coal with that t-stat. I have about 2200 sq ft ranch and it did not save any coal with a simple 3 degree set back (coal-trol). I had it set to ramp up an hour before coming home and when cold out it still did not have house to temp. After getting to set temp it would overshoot by about 2 degrees. Coal heats up slow and cools off slow.

highrise wrote:A brushed motor is DC and this an AC digital rheostat. Don't sound like you got that info from anywhere good, I will bet you definitely didn't get that from the manufacturers site. I ran it and tested their temps while low and high motor stayed cool and drew an amp on high and .7 on low with me trying to stall the motor with no issues. I think pulse modulation would be best for our situation as torque is important!

If you bought it and it's working good for you then that's great.

But just for the record, an AC universal motor has brushes.
But, it can also run on DC.

plumb-r wrote:I think you find you will use just as much coal with that t-stat. I have about 2200 sq ft ranch and it did not save any coal with a simple 3 degree set back (coal-trol). I had it set to ramp up an hour before coming home and when cold out it still did not have house to temp. After getting to set temp it would overshoot by about 2 degrees. Coal heats up slow and cools off slow.

I am setting the lyric with a 45 minute on delay for High, to compensate for the slow warm up to offset it. Your right, which is why I chose lyric. thanks for all the input guys!

Update: I am filling the hopper and dumping the ash pan about every 24-36 hours and saving about 25% in coal. I stopped running the combustion fan at 100% as this forces too much heat up the chimney while on low. I tied it into the rheostats so more coal burning=more air for combustion. This made sense and it worked wonders. Think about it guys if its burning little coal and forcing a lot of air up the chimney your losing out if you still get a full burn out of the coal with less air up the chimney. Also when lt pushes a small amount of coal and the combustion fan burns slower respectively then the coal burns longer and further to the edge giving me the 1" from the end burn line. Having everything adjust respectively absolutely increases efficiency and I really would encourage you guys running combustion fan 100% to revisit this! So far I'm burning less and my house is set at 68, the result is indoor temps of 67-72 but mostly it sets right at 68-69. My wife is tickled and loves the fact we don't have to keep turning the stove up and down any more. The lyric app is also cool and I love that I can lay in bed and turn it up if I want hehe.