Boom!

Starting Out wrote:I'm assuming this will not happen with a boiler, or will it?

I've never heard of this happening with a boiler. Any "booms" or puff-backs seem to be only with hand fired units. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me can speak on this, but I believe boilers are all "blower-driven" which should eliminate the issue.

For the record... I've had a few puff-backs on my hand fired. Nothing as serious as this, but they can be pretty scary.

Yes, it can be done on a boiler with Bituminous Coal. I know because I did it. The result was that my entire beard, eyebrows and all the hair that wasn't under my cap was singed off.
I'm glad I didn't breathe inward because it could've killed me.
Needless to say I never repeated the series of actions that caused it.

Starting Out wrote:I'm assuming this will not happen with a boiler, or will it?

It can and does, both hand fired and stokers. Rarer obviously but it can happen.

coaledsweat wrote:

Starting Out wrote:I'm assuming this will not happen with a boiler, or will it?

It can and does, both hand fired and stokers. Rarer obviously but it can happen.

I would assume that a hand fired boiler wouldn't be much different from a hand fired stove in this regard.

I guess no one saw the post above. Yes, you can back puff big time with a boiler.

I remember my first puff back.. I had just put a fresh load of coal on and latched the load door. About 30 minutes later I came down to check on it. I didn't see any fire. Thinking that I smuthered the fire, I stuck my head down into the ash pan area and peered up at the grates and thought hmmm, nice and bright orange in there.. I wonder whats going on? just as I pulled my head away, it lit and two feet of fire belched out from the ash pan door and I was showered with dust and ash. I thought whoa .. lets not do that again

There are likely some good (as in straight forward and simple) instructions for beginners posted on this forum to guide the hand fired newbies in regard to how to feed, ash, and maintain a safe fire in a hand fired stove. If anyone can point us to a few of these it would be well appreciated.

lsayre wrote:There are likely some good (as in straight forward and simple) instructions for beginners posted on this forum to guide the hand fired newbies in regard to how to feed, ash, and maintain a safe fire in a hand fired stove. If anyone can point us to a few of these it would be well appreciated.

There is lots of good information scattered around. To keep it straight forward and simple, I know of two ways to prevent puff back.

1) Banking the fire. This means to push some hot coals (after shake down) up high along a side or corner that stay exposed after loading fresh coal. The exposed hot coals will ignite the volatile gases before they build up to an explosive proportion.

2) Excessive Secondary air. With this method leave the hot coals level and add fresh coal. Leave the load door cracked a quarter inch. Only a quarter inch so primary air can still be pulled from under the grates. The extra secondary air keeps the volatile gases diluted so they don't make the proper oxygen mixture to explode. After the blues show up for a few minutes, its safe to latch the load door and set your combustion air controls for the burn time.

I use number 2..

The banking of the hot coals before adding a fresh load and adding some over the fire air until things start burning decent typically always prevents crazy puff backs in my stove setup. Also some existing flames in there kind of helps safely burn off the gasses as well. If they do occur, they are typically rather small and go almost unnoticed at times...

Now, last weekend I had a small wood fire burning to kinda take the chill off the house and to clean out some of my last years season remains. I had a small pile of fines that I was slowly throwing in to dispose of them appropriately. Wellllll, not really thinking, I kinda got a little carried away with the fines. Pretty much choked the fire out! And that my friends, that is when I experienced my first puff back. Needless to say I was nearly in the corner of the basement curled up in the fetal position with my glass of "seven and seven" shaking like a leaf on a tree. Something about a 3 foot flame belching out the Ashpan door kinda had me a little scared... In Situations like this, open the MPD, crack the loading door some, and start trying to regulate the underfire air as best as possible!
Even though it's my second year burning coal,I'm still very green behind the ears, and I know better than to have done what I did. But, it's life, things happen, memories are made, and lessons are learned.

Wheelo

Wheelo wrote:The banking of the hot coals before adding a fresh load and adding some over the fire air until things start burning decent typically always prevents crazy puff backs in my stove setup. Also some existing flames in there kind of helps safely burn off the gasses as well. If they do occur, they are typically rather small and go almost unnoticed at times...

Now, last weekend I had a small wood fire burning to kinda take the chill off the house and to clean out some of my last years season remains. I had a small pile of fines that I was slowly throwing in to dispose of them appropriately. Wellllll, not really thinking, I kinda got a little carried away with the fines. Pretty much choked the fire out! And that my friends, that is when I experienced my first puff back. Needless to say I was nearly in the corner of the basement curled up in the fetal position with my glass of "seven and seven" shaking like a leaf on a tree. Something about a 3 foot flame belching out the Ashpan door kinda had me a little scared... In Situations like this, open the MPD, crack the loading door some, and start trying to regulate the underfire air as best as possible!
Even though it's my second year burning coal,I'm still very green behind the ears, and I know better than to have done what I did. But, it's life, things happen, memories are made, and lessons are learned.

Wheelo

Yes, it's life, crap happens and lessons get learned along with as in my case; burning off your eyebrows, singing off your whiskers, getting blisters on your cheeks too. Not to mention the lost dignity on top of it all.

I'm a new coal burner, beginning my second season, & lifetime wood burner. I have had puff back with wood also. It's no different, volatile gases, introduce some fresh air & poof! On my Kodiac coal stove I could usually get a little puff & flames when I opened the load door on top. My solution was to keep my fingers clear & use a metal hook to momentarily open the door an inch or so & let it immediately drop closed. That little breath of air would trigger the gases then I could open it & load the stove.

If I waited too long to load the stove & pretty much buried the fire is when I worried about a bigger flash over. In that case, after loading the hopper I rolled up some newspaper or cardboard and using the glass door on front I placed it inside between the hopper and stove wall then lit it with a torch. That small open flame seemed to help the chimney draw as well as ignite any volatiles. You want the paper rolled tight so it will burn very slow. By the time the paper was reduced to ash the stove would be burning well.

I can't imagine how a puff back inside a closed stove could blow out the windows. I wonder if there was sewer gas or some other flammable gas accumulating in the room. A toilet partially clogged & slow to flush will sometimes not refill the bowl before the tank is filled, especially with these newer six quart flush toilets we must use. When that happens the trap is not sealed & sewer gas will escape into the room. Same thing with a sink, tub or shower drain. If the vent is plugged, the trap could be sucked dry and allow gas to fill the room.

top top wrote:I can't imagine how a puff back inside a closed stove could blow out the windows.

Yeah, seems hard too imagine lol.. I guess the sock wave of a quick flash could do it, but seems it would need to blow the flue pipe apart to reach a magnitude of shattering nearby windows..

top top wrote:
I can't imagine how a puff back inside a closed stove could blow out the windows. I wonder if there was sewer gas or some other flammable gas accumulating in the room. A toilet partially clogged & slow to flush will sometimes not refill the bowl before the tank is filled, especially with these newer six quart flush toilets we must use. When that happens the trap is not sealed & sewer gas will escape into the room. Same thing with a sink, tub or shower drain. If the vent is plugged, the trap could be sucked dry and allow gas to fill the room.

oh I've had some real mighty floor shakers and there wasn't any sewer gas until AFTER the boom Then I'd act real cool and say "Honey since you're awake now would you cook me some breakfast?"