shaking down a harman

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:17 pm

MountainPreacher wrote:Ok. Well, right now I have about a 60/40 situation with my coal bed with the 40% being dead/out. SO ... I just let this puppy fire up a bit with the door open (typically, I let the stove temp get up to 400, then fill). Poke/shake some and then load up - correct? I also unplug the fan to let the stove heat up better.



You should be able to save it if you just don't disturb the good secion too much (dont over shake it) get rid of as much of the dead area as you can (by digging it out from the top if necessary) & fill the hole you created with fresh, deep coal. Then make sure it's getting plenty of air & leave it alone. Good luck!
I've always found that, if you're around, throw a few shovels full of fresh coal over the whole fire from time to time. Then you won't find alot of dead areas later on.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:29 pm

Devil5052 wrote:
MountainPreacher wrote:Ok. Well, right now I have about a 60/40 situation with my coal bed with the 40% being dead/out. SO ... I just let this puppy fire up a bit with the door open (typically, I let the stove temp get up to 400, then fill). Poke/shake some and then load up - correct? I also unplug the fan to let the stove heat up better.



You should be able to save it if you just don't disturb the good secion too much (dont over shake it) get rid of as much of the dead area as you can (by digging it out from the top if necessary) & fill the hole you created with fresh, deep coal. Then make sure it's getting plenty of air & leave it alone. Good luck!
I've always found that, if you're around, throw a few shovels full of fresh coal over the whole fire from time to time. Then you won't find alot of dead areas later on.


OK, I'm gonna give this a try. It's fired up just over 400 (top of the stove temp) and I'll let you know. The right side is just dead. Looks like a good bit of coal that could burn is in it, but too much ash has it choked off. So I'll rid it of the ash, shake lightly and add new coal.

What about adding new coal to the side that's burning, get that coal going and then do the shaking/cleanging out?
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:38 pm

If the air to the one side is blocked, the fire will not burn in that part of the firebox.. You need to either poke from below through the gaps in the grates with a 1/4" bent poker wire to get the ash to fall through. You need to get air to the fire.

If you have to, you may have to let the fire burn out, and inspect what is left in the firebox.. if you have lots of stone, unburnt 'coal' or pieces of partially burnt coal.. you might want to consider buying a better quality coal.

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:59 pm

[quote="MountainPreacher
OK, I'm gonna give this a try. It's fired up just over 400 (top of the stove temp) and I'll let you know. The right side is just dead. Looks like a good bit of coal that could burn is in it, but too much ash has it choked off. So I'll rid it of the ash, shake lightly and add new coal.

What about adding new coal to the side that's burning, get that coal going and then do the shaking/cleanging out?[/quote]


Absolutely keep adding new coal to the good side! (Just dont smother it) That will help "draw"the air & maybe will get the dead side going again, once you have added fresh coal to it. Plan on leaving it alone overnight!!.If the dead side is still dead in the am then you can always shut her down & start over.....BUT....I'll bet you that if you dug out some dead ash & filled the hole with fresh coal & have a good draft going.....that it'll all be burning fine in the morning. Let us know!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:06 pm

LsFarm wrote:If the air to the one side is blocked, the fire will not burn in that part of the firebox.. You need to either poke from below through the gaps in the grates with a 1/4" bent poker wire to get the ash to fall through. You need to get air to the fire.

If you have to, you may have to let the fire burn out, and inspect what is left in the firebox.. if you have lots of stone, unburnt 'coal' or pieces of partially burnt coal.. you might want to consider buying a better quality coal.

Greg L

.


OK Greg. I loaded the left side with coal and it is burning great now. I'll go poke around on the right side that's dead and try to get it going.
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:35 pm

I find when shaking down that, almost always, the glowing embers start dropping first on one side, while on the other side it's kind of plugged up with ashes and nothing much is dropping. So I poke from the bottom to loosen up the bad side and get the ashes to drop. Otherwise, if I just keep shaking I will be dumping lots of good burning coal on the one side before I get to the embers on the other side. I have yet to figure out why it burns unevenly from side to side, and it's not always the same side that is the problem. But since adopting this procedure on every shaking, I have mostly done away with the half-dead fire that MountainPreacher describes. Corners and edges seem especially prone to going dead.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:56 pm

Devil5052 wrote:[quote="MountainPreacher
OK, I'm gonna give this a try. It's fired up just over 400 (top of the stove temp) and I'll let you know. The right side is just dead. Looks like a good bit of coal that could burn is in it, but too much ash has it choked off. So I'll rid it of the ash, shake lightly and add new coal.

What about adding new coal to the side that's burning, get that coal going and then do the shaking/cleanging out?



Absolutely keep adding new coal to the good side! (Just dont smother it) That will help "draw"the air & maybe will get the dead side going again, once you have added fresh coal to it. Plan on leaving it alone overnight!!.If the dead side is still dead in the am then you can always shut her down & start over.....BUT....I'll bet you that if you dug out some dead ash & filled the hole with fresh coal & have a good draft going.....that it'll all be burning fine in the morning. Let us know![/quote]

OK, well, I'm such a newbie at this. Dumb me. I shook the fire after the coal got burning great on the left side. However, I shook it way too much. :( Yeah. You know what happened. Sooooo . . . I poked around on the dead side working out a lot, (used my high tech 18" flat pry bar), took out a good bit all of that ash and then took hot coal from new pile and put it on the right. Threw in some kindling and now it is all going. I know you are right on if I had just loaded the left and not shook much, and did the poking/cleaning on the right that it would have been AOK by morning. :oops:
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:01 pm

MountainPreacher wrote:
Devil5052 wrote:[quote="MountainPreacher
OK, I'm gonna give this a try. It's fired up just over 400 (top of the stove temp) and I'll let you know. The right side is just dead. Looks like a good bit of coal that could burn is in it, but too much ash has it choked off. So I'll rid it of the ash, shake lightly and add new coal.

What about adding new coal to the side that's burning, get that coal going and then do the shaking/cleanging out?



Absolutely keep adding new coal to the good side! (Just dont smother it) That will help "draw"the air & maybe will get the dead side going again, once you have added fresh coal to it. Plan on leaving it alone overnight!!.If the dead side is still dead in the am then you can always shut her down & start over.....BUT....I'll bet you that if you dug out some dead ash & filled the hole with fresh coal & have a good draft going.....that it'll all be burning fine in the morning. Let us know!


OK, well, I'm such a newbie at this. Dumb me. I shook the fire after the coal got burning great on the left side. However, I shook it way too much. :( Yeah. You know what happened. Sooooo . . . I poked around on the dead side working out a lot, (used my high tech 18" flat pry bar), took out a good bit all of that ash and then took hot coal from new pile and put it on the right. Threw in some kindling and now it is all going. I know you are right on if I had just loaded the left and not shook much, and did the poking/cleaning on the right that it would have been AOK by morning. :oops:[/quote]



Hey...We all learned by trial an error!!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:02 pm

rberq wrote:I find when shaking down that, almost always, the glowing embers start dropping first on one side, while on the other side it's kind of plugged up with ashes and nothing much is dropping. So I poke from the bottom to loosen up the bad side and get the ashes to drop. Otherwise, if I just keep shaking I will be dumping lots of good burning coal on the one side before I get to the embers on the other side. I have yet to figure out why it burns unevenly from side to side, and it's not always the same side that is the problem. But since adopting this procedure on every shaking, I have mostly done away with the half-dead fire that MountainPreacher describes. Corners and edges seem especially prone to going dead.


Alas - just what I am experiencing. LS has mentioned about this 1/4" poking rod. Are there any pictures of this critter?

I've noticed the plugged up side is almost always the side that was burning better than the other. It burns down, typically when I'm sleeping, and the when I find it it's the mix of burned/unburned coal and ash like you describe.
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:03 am

You need to make the 'L' shaped poker.. I used a piece of the wire frame from a large political sign.. the wire frame was made from 3/16" steel wire.. I bent a 4" bend, 90* on one end, and a loop on the other end for a handle... then from through the ashpan door up from below, you can feel for the openings between the grates and grate fingers.. poke up and down, like a toothpick between teeth.. You want to dislodge the ash that has not fallen down, dislodge it so it opens air passageways to the coal fire above.

If you use the wire poker under every 'dark spot' you see in the firebox, you will soon get air to the whole bed of coals. As the fire burns down, you will see hot spots [very good air flow] and dark spots [reduced or blocked air flow]. Use the poker to 'clean up' the shaking operation.

If you are using really large coal, nut and stove mix for example, some of the ash is just too large and too hard to get through the gaps in the grates, without dumping the fire. And sometimes these large pieces wedge between the grates and lock them open..

Have you tried Pea size coal in your stove?? Lots of hand feed stoves burn and shake down the pea size better.

Hope this helps. Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:57 am

rberq wrote:I find when shaking down that, almost always, the glowing embers start dropping first on one side, while on the other side it's kind of plugged up with ashes and nothing much is dropping. So I poke from the bottom to loosen up the bad side and get the ashes to drop. Otherwise, if I just keep shaking I will be dumping lots of good burning coal on the one side before I get to the embers on the other side. I have yet to figure out why it burns unevenly from side to side, and it's not always the same side that is the problem. But since adopting this procedure on every shaking, I have mostly done away with the half-dead fire that MountainPreacher describes. Corners and edges seem especially prone to going dead.



I find the same thing most of the time....one side burning better than the other & embers dropping only from that side when I shake it down. I guess I am alot lazier than you so I dont poke from underneath the fire....This is my procedure:

1. Shake down the stove while watching for the first hint of red embers dropping down....Then stop shaking.
2. Since the embers will almost always be coming from only one side of the fire bed, I will poke down lightly into the top of the bad side only.....This will always cause to fire bed to settle a bit & many times I poke into an empty air pocket & the firebed will collapse like a fallen cake!
3. Once the bad side has compacted (I will make sure I still have a good strong draw on the good side & often add some fresh coal to the good side)I will then give the stove a few gentle shakes, at which time I will notice some embers fall from the bad side as well....Then stop shaking! (you dont want to shake down so much that you compact the bed & cut off the air draw through the fire)
4. At this point I will just cram as much coal in as possible, wait for the temp to start to rise again & close the ash door. Done!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: dutch On: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:35 pm

Preacher,
I guess it depends on what you are seeing when you shake.

are you getting some hot coals dropping thru the grates?
any glow that you can see in that "dead" zone, either from
the top of reflecting up thru the bottom?
If you aren't getting the whole bed going, and you fill
the stove with fresh coal, are you able to watch what happens
during day? does that fresh coal ignite, and burn for a while?
or does it really never get going?
you may have to poke a bit more, or shake a bit more, to
try to get that dead ash/residue down thru the grates so that
the fresh coal can really burn efficiently.

I'm trying to reduce my coal usage as the daytime temps come up,
but then we get blasted with 15 degrees this morning again and
everybody is complaining the house is only 67 degrees!!
i'm ready for spring!
dutch
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska Channing III

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:11 pm

LsFarm wrote:You need to make the 'L' shaped poker.. I used a piece of the wire frame from a large political sign.. the wire frame was made from 3/16" steel wire.. I bent a 4" bend, 90* on one end, and a loop on the other end for a handle... then from through the ashpan door up from below, you can feel for the openings between the grates and grate fingers.. poke up and down, like a toothpick between teeth.. You want to dislodge the ash that has not fallen down, dislodge it so it opens air passageways to the coal fire above.

If you use the wire poker under every 'dark spot' you see in the firebox, you will soon get air to the whole bed of coals. As the fire burns down, you will see hot spots [very good air flow] and dark spots [reduced or blocked air flow]. Use the poker to 'clean up' the shaking operation.

If you are using really large coal, nut and stove mix for example, some of the ash is just too large and too hard to get through the gaps in the grates, without dumping the fire. And sometimes these large pieces wedge between the grates and lock them open..

Have you tried Pea size coal in your stove?? Lots of hand feed stoves burn and shake down the pea size better.

Hope this helps. Greg L

.


You are on to something here. The nut coal I am getting has large peices, ones I would classify as stove, and small that are pea sized. I think I may go with the pea coal and see how it does.

Thanks for the instructions on the poker!
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:33 pm

[quote="MountainPreacher"]


How did it go last night? Were you able to save the fire & is it still going?
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: shaking down a harman

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:48 pm

Hey! Went great after I poked down from the top with the flat pry bar and got those ashes out, then, as I posted, I shook the fire too much and it started to die. So, I split up some kindling and threw coal on top of that and has been fine since.

After reading all this great information posted up top, I see that I just need to be a little more agressive and alert with the dead spots and not just leave them alone. :)
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Visit Hitzer Stoves