Quantity of fines

Quantity of fines

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:40 pm

Recently there was a discussion about what is "typical" for the amount of fines discharged from the fines cleanout on a S-20 stoker. I decided to do a small experiment and share my results.

1. For a starting point, I pulled the cleanout lever twice for 10 seconds each time (w/ stoker running), and I replaced the ash tub with an empty one.
2. 3 days later, I replaced the ash tub with another empty (and clean) one, and pulled the cleanout lever twice for 10 seconds each time (w/ stoker running).
3. My hour meter indicated that the stoker ran 12.5 hours during the experiment, so the amount of coal burned should be close to 125 lbs.
4. The ashes produced are in the tub on the left, fines are in the tub on the right.
5. I poured the fines into a 32oz yogurt container (wife wouldn't let me use the measuring cups).
6. Looks like about 10 oz of fines from 125 lbs of rice coal.

I run a full length auger, 2.5 flights exposed past the end of the pipe.
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Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:53 pm

If you ask real nice maybe she'd let you use the food scale for the yogurt container with and without the fines? I can see lsayre shaking his head over the risk of imprecision here. :lol:

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:45 pm

I didn't weigh the amount of coal burned, and I doubt anyone else is going to weigh the fines...so thought a crude volume measurement would be adequate. If you want me to get out the calibrated balance and send to the fines to the lab for mesh analysis, I'll probably suggest you install your own S-20 stoker and repeat the experiment. :D
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:02 pm

Rob, you mentioned an hour meter,how is that hooked up,sounds like a very good meter to have.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:02 am

It is just a 120v hour meter, wired in parallel with the stoker motor.
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Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:33 am

Thanks, Rob,i will ck into it ,& thanks for this fines quantity thread, it gives a good idea as to the norm.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:37 am

Well, that amount of fines is normal for my 520 and the coal I am using. I am not sure what EFM would consider "normal".
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:50 am

Remember, "Charter Members" save those fines and use them as 'grits'. No need for Metamucil, they go well with 7 grains breads, bagels.....perhaps a muffin if you are REALLY waaaaaaaay out there. I am shocked Larry has not vilified you for the measurement accuracy and a chain of command for those fines and related ash.
It was nice to see a comparison post, because we all have questions about the quality and yields of our coal supply. I believe that is a LeHigh Rice and it looks to be an excellent product, well sized and clean. It is nice to see a 'Real World' snapshot of different products. All I might add is: BE CAREFUL of woven bags that are older or have been outside degrading..........Keep it covered or under cover if you can.

If anyone would like some rain, I'll gladly pipe it your way. 3.75" so far and nasty today. too!
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska, Gibraltar, Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:28 am

Rob R. wrote: I am not sure what EFM would consider "normal".


EFM historically has been pretty fussy about coal sizing and quality issues. The current spec of less than 15% undersized has been around for many decades, as has the guidance to avoid coal that is excessively wet or excessively oiled (due largely to issues related to fines). Even the guidance on the auger exposure in the bin is intended largely to prevent grinding and the creation of fines. While the unit generally will soldier on through coal that varies materially from the specs, I'm guessing Mr. Kalmbach was expecting to see something like Rob's "coffee cup". It should be remembered that the manual calls for the fines lever to be pulled only once a day, so if the air chamber is even coming close to getting clogged in that timeframe either the coal or its handling is producing more fines than EFM had in mind.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:35 am

I can tell you from experience that running too much auger past the end of the pipe will grind the coal...so will a pitted auger pipe.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: gaw On: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:59 pm

Pacowy wrote:If you ask real nice maybe she'd let you use the food scale for the yogurt container with and without the fines? I can see lsayre shaking his head over the risk of imprecision here. :lol:

Mike

Ask your wife :rofl:

Just do it, tell her about it later. bop2
gaw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice from Schuylkill County

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: northernmainecoal On: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:34 am

Here's my fines report, the wife wasn't home so I decided to weigh them :D Not sure how much coal I have burned, that's how much was there after a full tub of ash
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northernmainecoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 30-95
Baseburners & Antiques: Herald Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Nut/Stove

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Excellent work on the fines measurement but that coal use estimate is going to need some fine-tuning. :lol:

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: StokerDon On: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:22 am

It's a little hard to tell what amount of coal is producing what amount of fines on this thread so here's my report.

300 pounds of Lehigh bagged rice produced 3 pounds of fines. About half a 5 pound coffee tub.
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I thought that 3 pounds was a lot. Northernmaoncoal 11.75 pounds! really! I hope you burned a lot of coal to get that many fines.

Hopefully we can get some more people in on this so we all can get an idea of what is "normal". Be sure you have some idea how many pounds of coal was burned to produce the fines measured.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: BairMatic BMC-500 with Van Wert VA400 Stoker, Gentleman Janitor GJ-671/EFM S-15 stoker, Van Wert VA-600
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Quantity of fines

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:58 am

That digital scale shows 11.75 OZ= 11.75 ounces to 1 full tub of ashes.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both