Mr.Herald up & Running. Now, How Do You Work This Thing? :-)

dlj wrote: Not at all a good temperature spread for that stove. You should be able to run anywhere from roughly 200 to 700. Something is not right... What are you doing with the damper in the stove pipe? What about the valve to put it in baseburner mode? Are you using it? dj

Oh yes, I am in base burner mode for the most part. Only time I'm not in base burner mode is when I'm re-lighting or reloading. When mot in BB mode I'm bring it up to a desired temp and then put it in BB mode and close the MPD. I too am concerned about reaching those 6 & 700 degree temps as I wanted to see just how to regulate the stoves temp up to prepare for "Old Man Winter's" arrival. Never the less I was told by one of our illustrious members that the warm weather temps as of now are not ideal and that as "Old Man Winter" arrives the stove would kick in. Trust me I tried to reach the hottest temps just to see. Just the other night just for the heck of it by leaving the ash door open for a period of time. Like I said I was only able to reach about 550 to 575. This is why I have removed the heat shield as the heat was not reaching the living room as before the heat shield was placed.

Question: Is the "Check damper" only used when burning wood? Is there some use for it while burning coal?

The check damper is basically a "brake pedal" for a strong draft. It can be used whatever the fuel. However, not all stoves need to use it. By opening the check damper and bleeding cooler air in after the fire, it lowers the stack temp, thus lowering draft strength.

I'd recommend that you leave the check damper closed while your learning how the stove reacts to primary, secondary, and MPD changes. It will just add one more variable that you don't need now.

You say you close the MPD when the stove reaches temp you want. How much opening are you setting the primary dampers to in the ash drawer door ,..... and when are you using that setting in the loading cycle? How much opening of the secondary damper in the loading door ?

Paul

Installing the mano does not have to be complicated. Place the mano where you want. Install the screws, center the bubble level. Slowly and carefully fill the gauge following the instructions supplied.

The tubing I have is from the mano gauge in an oil burner tune up kit, but automotive vacuum line will work very well with the temps near the stack.

If you take the tubing supplied with the mano, to an autoparts store. Ask them for a size of vacuum line tubing that fits snuggly over that mano tubing. Make sure it's vacuum line hose, not wiper washer hose, so it can take the heat !!!!

Then get a length of brake tubing to fit snuggly into that size vacuum tubing.

Cut off about 8 inches of brake tubing and bend it in a "zig-zag" shape like the picture below. That shape bend will let the tubing stay in the hole, with the tubing extending a couple of inches into the stack.

Drill a hole that is only slightly larger then the tubing, in the side of the stack pipe between the stove and the MPD.

Push the vacuum line on the brake tubing and insert it in the stack. Push the other end of the vacuum line over about a one inch length of the smaller tubing supplied with the mano , and install that on the right-hand connection of the mano, where it says "Low".

Make sure the red liquid lines up with the zero mark when the gauge is leveled and tubing is not hooked up to the gauge. If it's not, turn the dial to raise, or lower, the liquid level. Install the tubing and your done.

Paul

UncleDoDat wrote:Hey, guys. Hope everyone is well. It has been a few days of burning with Mr. Herald and we are getting very well acquainted. Had a few mis-haps nothing that a lil' patience didn't fix. But we are burning precious black rocks ova here. During the day I have been able to get it down to 300 by closing off all dampers and at night between 450-500 with the primary dampers wide open.

When you say 450-500 with the primaries wide open.....is your secondary air inlet closed?. Where is your MPD?. Is your check damper in some stage of open or is it closed?.

Being this is at night, I assume you added coal and shook it earlier and the fire is established?.
When you loaded and shook it, how long did you give it to get going and at what temp did you put it in BB mode?.

Odd.

Do you change your pipe diameter that may have something to do with it

Sunny Boy wrote: You say you close the MPD when the stove reaches temp you want. How much opening are you setting the primary dampers to in the ash drawer door ,..... and when are you using that setting in the loading cycle? How much opening of the secondary damper in the loading door ?

Paul

Well when I reach a desired temp. Yes I close off the MPD or crack it 45 degree angle only if I'm calling for more heat . The primary dampers to the ash draw varies depending on how much heat I am attempting to have. For instance, if I am trying to get a higher temp I leave the primaries basically open all the way. If I'm not requiring a lot of heat I close one of the primary dampers all the way and crack the other.

When reloading as I have kilt a couple of fires by dumping to much coal over not enough fire and too much ash. I sometimes leave the ash door wide open until the fire establishes it self. When I reload I put in direct draft mode and open the MPD fully. Until the fire establishes it self and then flip to BB mode and close down the MPD. "Is This Not Right?"

Sunny Boy wrote:Installing the mano does not have to be complicated. Make sure the red liquid lines up with the zero mark when the gauge is leveled and tubing is not hooked up to the gauge. If it's not, turn the dial to raise, or lower, the liquid level. Install the tubing and your done.

Paul

Fairly simple Sunny Boy. I can do that. See, I thought that what ever piece was enter into the stack pipe had to be air tight. That's what has stunted my manometer installation

Pancho wrote:

UncleDoDat wrote:Hey, guys. Hope everyone is well. It has been a few days of burning with Mr. Herald and we are getting very well acquainted. Had a few mis-haps nothing that a lil' patience didn't fix. But we are burning precious black rocks ova here. During the day I have been able to get it down to 300 by closing off all dampers and at night between 450-500 with the primary dampers wide open.

When you say 450-500 with the primaries wide open.....is your secondary air inlet closed?. Where is your MPD?. Is your check damper in some stage of open or is it closed?.

Being this is at night, I assume you added coal and shook it earlier and the fire is established?.
When you loaded and shook it, how long did you give it to get going and at what temp did you put it in BB mode?.

Odd.

For the most part the secondary air inlet stays closed unless I'm trying to establish a good burn or attempting to raise the temp of the stove it self, once a proper burn has been reached I then close it off as I have learned from William's vids that coal needs very little secondary air to burn. The MPD is here I don't touch the check damper.

dad123456 wrote:Do you change your pipe diameter that may have something to do with it

Now that you mentioned it. When installing the MPD. The stack pipe was more of an oval shape. I did give it a tight squeeze in order to get the MPD in the pipe. OMG tell me I didn't screw something up. You think this may have something to do with me not able to go past 550 degrees?

Your did fine. The MPD looks good.

My range has the same problem. The 6 inch pipe has to transition from an 7 inch oval hole in the stack collar to 6 inch oval. Then to less of an oval as the pipe passes through the top shelf, then to a round at the MPD less than 2 feet above the shelf. That oval shape wants to stay further up pipe than is needed. To make the pipe round again at the MPD so it could close fully, I had to "over squash" the long axis of the oval in the area of the MPD. When the metal sprung back, it was then round right at the MPD.

As Lee pointed out, the flue gas volume in the stack is great enough that a slight leak around the mano tube from a slip-fit sized hole in the pipe will not affect the readings if the tube is in a couple of inches. To test it, I've wrapped clay around the tube where it goes into the pipe and there was no change in readings from when there is no clay.

Good, since you don't have problems with too strong a draft, for now, using the check damper will only complicate things without helping. Once you sort out and learn the dampers you need to learn, you can experiment with the check damper to learn it's affect on the stove.

In simple terms. To load, start at the top. Open the MPD, put the stove into direct mode, open the primary's. Always start with the top dampers and work down. Let the fire build up some strength for a minute or two. Then put a layer of coal in first. Let that stop popping then do your ash shaking.

Coal first then shake does two things. It gets the coal going while there's more heat in the stove to help light it. And as some have found, it adds more weight on top of the coal bed to help get the bed to drop and thus reduce tendency for the old coal bed to bridge.

When the coal stops popping and the blue ladies appear, set the dampers from bottom up. Primary's, then indirect mode, then MPD. Don't be in a rush to load and set the dampers. Give it time to get going before you set them or you could stall the fire.

If the stove will reach high temps after starting a new fire, but not later after it's been burning a day or two, you may not be clearing enough ash.

Do you rotate the grates once a day to grind up and drop any clinkers starting to form ? If not, and your just shaking the grates, ash will fall through between the grate bars, but the clinkers can start to form and grow together on top of the grate bars and teeth, thus restricting air and also taking the place of fuel that can burn, thus putting out less and less heat as the days roll by.

The picture is a clinker in it's early stages of forming. It can be crushed by hand, but not by shaking alone. The triangular teeth type grates can easily grind it up and dump it just by rotating them at least once a day. If let go for weeks that clinker will melt together more and more, looking more like a meteorite and the grates will jam before they can grind it.

Paul

Sunny Boy wrote:Your did fine. The MPD looks good.
If the stove will reach high temps after starting a new fire, but not later after it's been burning a day or two, you may not be clearing enough ash.

Do you rotate the grates once a day to grind up and drop any clinkers starting to form ? If not, and your just shaking the grates, ash will fall through between the grate bars, but the clinkers can start to form and grow together on top of the grate bars and teeth, thus restricting air and also taking the place of fuel that can burn, thus putting out less and less heat as the days roll by.

The picture is a clinker in it's early stages of forming. It can be crushed by hand, but not by shaking alone. The triangular teeth type grates can easily grind it up and dump it just by rotating them at least once a day. If let go for weeks that clinker will melt together more and more, looking more like a meteorite and the grates will jam before they can grind it.

Paul

Thanks for the info. This has definitely been an issue. As well as the bridging thing that has been happening. And yeah probably not clearing enough ash. Sometime I shake and nothing drops. I have now identified what bridging is. No I have not been rotating the grates once a day & now that I know what a clinker looks like I have seen plenty of them, thus far. This maybe has something to do with me not reaching higher heat levels?

UncleDoDat wrote:And yeah probably not clearing enough ash. Sometime I shake and nothing drops.

You should definitely be able to get some ash out of it after 8-12 hours of a burn. Shake till you see a few red embers falling and an orange glow radiating down thru the grates illuminating the ash pan. This may be why yer not seeing the higher temps on the stove.

UncleDoDat wrote:& now that I know what a clinker looks like I have seen plenty of them, thus far. This maybe has something to do with me not reaching higher heat levels

Clinkers usually take a week or so to grow to problematic sizes, but that's not always the case. They normally form with red ash coal during high heat demands. Over time they just take up space in the fuel bed and they end up shortening burn cycles and can make heat output suffer too..

Right. The clinkers are more likely to form at higher heat. But I get them with what many consider "white" or "tan" ash coal too.

But, you may be getting some clinker bits dropping while larger ones are sitting right over the grate bars. To rid them, I rotate the grates at least one surface worth each morning when there is the most ash. If I don't see the beginnings of any glow in the ash pan, I'll rotate once more. Then I'll do the shaking until I just start to see an even glow through out the ash pan

By "one surface worth" I don't mean rotate them a full 360 degrees. Just one surface that the coal rests on. If your stove has triangular teeth, that's rotating only 120 degrees - if two sided grates, then that would be 180 degrees.

If later in the day I see that not much is dropping with just a little shaking and the ash pan is staying dark, I'll rotate them one more surface.

The trick is to not to over shake, but learning how much is enough is tough. Error on the side of a bit too much shaking will keep the fire going and give more heat, with less frustration then not shaking enough and wondering why the fire is slow, or goes out. So, in the beginning don't be afraid to shake until you see burning bits falling into the ash pan and an even glow through out the ash pan area. While your watching the ash pan area, see if you can feel an increase in shaking resistance as the unburned coal settles unto the grates.

If you see dark areas either use a poker from below to clear them, or shake a bit more until those areas show a bit of glow too. If that doesn't get an even glow, then that dark area may be forming a clinker and you'll need to break it up by "slashing" with a poker by drawing it horizontally though the grate teeth spaces. Poking it up may not break it up enough. But no big worry, if you don't want to mess with clearing small, darker areas then, it'll get ground up the next morning when you rotate the grates.

Paul

How much coal are you putting in the stove? On the first page, the fire was way too small. You need to fill to the top of your ceramic liner with coal. You should have a deep bed of coal.

dj

dlj wrote:How much coal are you putting in the stove? On the first page, the fire was way too small. You need to fill to the top of your ceramic liner with coal. You should have a deep bed of coal.
dj

Yeah that was kind of low considering how I now try to make a point or a pyramid if you will when filling.

yesterday I had to relight after sleeping to long. There were a few coals still burning, but after shaking it all fell through the grates. I started with charcoal and kerosene. That work's like a charm. (Good ole William) Worked it up by adding layers of coal until the fire box was completely full. I leave the ash door wide open while doing this. Sort of lost track of time. Ask my 10yr old for a reading off the side of the stove. He said 600 degrees. I imediately jumped out of the recliner & ran into the foyer and buckled Mr Herald down. Closed the MPD, placed in BB mode and closed the ash door. I did not adjust the dampers as they were already wide open. As I was trying to reach hotter temps the night before. I left it for about 30mins. When I came back I was at 400 degrees. I then closed one damper entirely and cracked the other to a slither. This time upon returning It was reading at 300 degrees. Then I opened one damper entirely to see if the temp rises. Already I'm on my way back up to 400. I think I'm getting the hang of things. All though it was only 41 degrees here in Dover at 1:46am

Around 12 noon things were still looking good, maintaining 300 degrees, but the ash pan was dark, so I poked a few wholes in the fire bed, added more coal and shook. The bridge was still an issue, but a bit more poking the fire bed fixed it.I was afraid that I might stump the fire so I left the ash pan open for about five mins or until I saw the blue ladies dancing thier dance. It shot up to 500 degrees and I buckled him down. Closed one damper completley, put in BB mode and closed the MPD. Mr. Herald is at 275. And it's 66 degrees here in Dover.

If these are poor performance numbers like I was told in an earlier post. Maybe I have a poor daft. Which I won't know until I put the manometer in. I know, I know I'm all over it.

How about I'm looking for another stove. Something a lot smaller. See my bed room is on the first floor and all the way on the other side of the house. And Mr. Herald has quite a reach, but not that far. As you can see I have my kerosene heater sitting right out side the bedroom and it keeps my bedroom, laundry room and bathroom perfect. I don't want to put a stove in the bedroom as that would more than likely sweat us out. I am thinking about this space out side of the bedroom it adjoins the laundry room, bathroom & kitchen. I was thinking about a Crane 44 or a jutol I even researched a Chubby Jr. Hoping to put something small right there in the corner where the vacum & tool box are. I don't know, but I can see a Crane or something tall and skinny sitting there. With the proper heat shielding ofcourse

Small, cute and a great anthracite burner is a Jotul 507. They are around and quite inexpensive do you have a chimney for it? Do you think a ceiling fan would help move things around? In my particular set up they work wonders.

At 66 degrees outside,... pretty much everyone has poor draft. 275 on the barrel ain't bad when it's that warm outside.

And your temp range numbers are not bad for being that far south, thus that much warmer then those farther north and how their stoves respond,.... plus taking into account that your just starting to learn.

Hang in there and don't worry so much about making minor mistakes while your learning. NO ONE is born knowing this stuff (except maybe William ). It takes time to gain experience and many times, goofs can be the best teacher.

Paul

Do you have cross ventilation when you use the kero heater, and a CO detector outside that bed room?

Those kero heaters were banded many years ago where I come from because of the carbon monoxide they pump out.

Paul