Yellow Flame Grate Experiment
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- Member
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 11, 2014 6:52 pm
- Location: Morrisdale Pa.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Van wert 400 stoker inside National 200 boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: National recently converted to Hard coal stoker
- Coal Size/Type: Buck
- Other Heating: Oil and electric
How many tons of coal have you fed that thing since the start of the heating season?
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- Member
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 11, 2014 6:52 pm
- Location: Morrisdale Pa.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Van wert 400 stoker inside National 200 boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: National recently converted to Hard coal stoker
- Coal Size/Type: Buck
- Other Heating: Oil and electric
How many tons of coal have you fed that thing since the start of the heating season?
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
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- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Pat,PatT15 wrote:How many tons of coal have you fed that thing since the start of the heating season?
I put about 2 tons or so of Hard Rice and about 3/4 ton of Medium Buckwheat. Thats almost 3 ton since Sept. 14th.
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Just filled up with 108 pounds of Medium Buck. Thats 108 pounds per day for the Little Coal Hog. Removed 23 pounds of ash.
-Don
-Don
- windyhill4.2
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- Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
SD,you heat DHW for how many people? Heat how many sq. ft ?
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
One person, 1400 sq ft house. The boiler is in the 2 car garage, the radeint heat off the boiler heats the garage, no zone.windyhill4.2 wrote:SD,you heat DHW for how many people? Heat how many sq. ft ?
-Don
- windyhill4.2
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- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
- Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Thanks SD, not to make you feel bad,but when I look at your numbers & then I look at mine, I feel bad at times that we are using 150-180#/day but that is DHW for 2 houses ,5 people of which 4 are here all day every day,heat for 2 houses & our repair shop . Looking at those numbers & comparing to yours now makes ME feel sad for you !
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
W.H. ,
I would think heating 2 houses and DHW for 150 to 180 pounds per day is a good deal. Your also heating your shop!
If I can do a quick refurb and a quick and dirty 2 pipe install of the Losch things will improve. I hope!
-Don
I would think heating 2 houses and DHW for 150 to 180 pounds per day is a good deal. Your also heating your shop!
If I can do a quick refurb and a quick and dirty 2 pipe install of the Losch things will improve. I hope!
-Don
- windyhill4.2
- Member
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
- Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Looking forward to it.
- Smokeyja
- Member
- Posts: 1997
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- Location: Richmond, VA.
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater, Richmond Advance Range, WarmMorning 414a x2
- Coal Size/Type: Nut / Anthracite
- Other Heating: none
- Contact:
Well right on! I didn't realize what was exactly involved with putting plates in there but I'm glad you explained it and my simple thought about it got your wheels turning. I don't know much about boilers but it's interesting to learn about them and read these threads ! Keep up the interesting work!StokerDon wrote:Smokey,
That would be the thing to do, but, it's one HECK of a lot of work. Remeber, these '"plates" aren't just chunks of metal they are part of the pressure vessle, boiler water flows through them. If I understand plate boiler construction correctly, you would have to cut the inside walls of the firebox open, fabricate plates to fit in the slots, drill holes for boiler stays in the new plates and weld it all together.
Humm,,, Now that you mention it, mabe it's not that hard! I don't have all the equipment to do it here. I could simplifiy the work by using boiler tubes instead of plates. The tubes are a little harder to clean but they WILL increase the surface area above the fire.
Well, thank's Somkey. I guess that will be the next big project for the Yellow Flame.
-Don
Last edited by Smokeyja on Sun. Jan. 04, 2015 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
You got it Smokey!
I got the auger sealed up and finished today. So we are back on the auger.
I pulled out 19 pounds of ash today.
I made a cover for the end of the auger and one for the hopper too.
I don't know if this will hurt of not but I couldn't stand not seeing it anymore!
I guess the garage will be a little warmer.
-Don
I got the auger sealed up and finished today. So we are back on the auger.
I pulled out 19 pounds of ash today.
I made a cover for the end of the auger and one for the hopper too.
I don't know if this will hurt of not but I couldn't stand not seeing it anymore!
I guess the garage will be a little warmer.
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Agreed!!!blrman07 wrote:YES YES YES
Thank you . That paint job should stand out. It's worth a percentage point or so in lost efficiency just to look at it!!!
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
A few conclusions;
As far as grates being 30% cemented closed or fully open; NO difference in coal usage or net boiler heat output. At least in my installation.
Keystoker contiuous blower; I noticed no difference in coal ash weight, heat output or burn quality. This seems to be an effort by Keystoker to overcome occasonal outfires on some installs.
Boiler insulation; Inconclusive, removing the insulation to have a better view of the boiler did not cause any noticable extra coal usage. I would bet that if I run it in the Summer months for DHW, it would keep the garage a bit cooler.
Combustion air adjustments; On the Hard Rice coal made a BIG difference. Reducing the combustion air brought down the weight of the ash about 9 pounds per bushel bucket. It didn't change the ash weight of the Medium Buckwheat, I think that is because the Yellow Flame combustion air cannot be reuced enough to properly burn Medium Buckwheat. Overall the Yellow Flame worked best on the Hard Barley coal, conbustion air could be run almost wide open.
Next will be to compare some of these results to my Losch "Yellowtail" conversion boiler. The Yellowtail has a Yellow Flame 3 grate stoker stuffed in the back of it.
My New Toy, Losch Stoker Boiler
-Don
As far as grates being 30% cemented closed or fully open; NO difference in coal usage or net boiler heat output. At least in my installation.
Keystoker contiuous blower; I noticed no difference in coal ash weight, heat output or burn quality. This seems to be an effort by Keystoker to overcome occasonal outfires on some installs.
Boiler insulation; Inconclusive, removing the insulation to have a better view of the boiler did not cause any noticable extra coal usage. I would bet that if I run it in the Summer months for DHW, it would keep the garage a bit cooler.
Combustion air adjustments; On the Hard Rice coal made a BIG difference. Reducing the combustion air brought down the weight of the ash about 9 pounds per bushel bucket. It didn't change the ash weight of the Medium Buckwheat, I think that is because the Yellow Flame combustion air cannot be reuced enough to properly burn Medium Buckwheat. Overall the Yellow Flame worked best on the Hard Barley coal, conbustion air could be run almost wide open.
Next will be to compare some of these results to my Losch "Yellowtail" conversion boiler. The Yellowtail has a Yellow Flame 3 grate stoker stuffed in the back of it.
My New Toy, Losch Stoker Boiler
-Don