Yellow Flame Grate Experiment
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
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- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Larry,
I don't know. The DHW load should be very low, It's just 1 person. The house load should be the same for the Harman and the Yellow Flame. They are both hooked up so I can heat the house with either one. There is 1 duct going to the breezeway so that the Harman can heat it to about 55-60 degrees in Winter.
I guess that leaves the garage? The boiler isn't struggling to heat anything, heat calls from the house are satisfied in between 10 and 30 minutes.
With the Tri-Burner stoker in it heating DHW only, we were using about 18 pounds per day. Shoulder month usage averages 35.5 pounds per day. When night time temps got down to 30 degrees, the Tri-Burner was at it's limit.
The Yellow Flame with the closed off grate holes is currently using 87.5 - 96 pounds per day. Temps have been hi 20's at night and hi 30's in the day.
A few weeks ago, I ran the Harman for a week. Yellow Flame coal usage was 37.5 pounds per day heating DHW and maintaining temp out in the garage.
Hummm,,, Putting these numbers together in the same place makes the picture a little clearer. Just heating DHW the Yellow Flame is using twice as much coal as the Tri-Burner. OR, that extra 19.5 pounds per day is keeping the boiler warm in the garage.
-Don
I don't know. The DHW load should be very low, It's just 1 person. The house load should be the same for the Harman and the Yellow Flame. They are both hooked up so I can heat the house with either one. There is 1 duct going to the breezeway so that the Harman can heat it to about 55-60 degrees in Winter.
I guess that leaves the garage? The boiler isn't struggling to heat anything, heat calls from the house are satisfied in between 10 and 30 minutes.
With the Tri-Burner stoker in it heating DHW only, we were using about 18 pounds per day. Shoulder month usage averages 35.5 pounds per day. When night time temps got down to 30 degrees, the Tri-Burner was at it's limit.
The Yellow Flame with the closed off grate holes is currently using 87.5 - 96 pounds per day. Temps have been hi 20's at night and hi 30's in the day.
A few weeks ago, I ran the Harman for a week. Yellow Flame coal usage was 37.5 pounds per day heating DHW and maintaining temp out in the garage.
Hummm,,, Putting these numbers together in the same place makes the picture a little clearer. Just heating DHW the Yellow Flame is using twice as much coal as the Tri-Burner. OR, that extra 19.5 pounds per day is keeping the boiler warm in the garage.
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Yes I can. That's a good idea. Tomorrow night I will need a refil, so at that time I can switch on the electric water heater (YUK!!!) and run that for this hopper full.
-Don
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Lighning wrote:
"Is there much un burned coal in the ashes?"
Lee,
If you look earlier in this thread you will see my ash comparisson. And you may be interested in the Harman vs. Yellow Flame ash comparission.
But to answer your question. Currently the ashes are nicely burnt up.
-Don
"Is there much un burned coal in the ashes?"
Lee,
If you look earlier in this thread you will see my ash comparisson. And you may be interested in the Harman vs. Yellow Flame ash comparission.
But to answer your question. Currently the ashes are nicely burnt up.
-Don
- McGiever
- Member
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- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Any way to lengthen gas path or hold gases longer before they exit fire box?
- Lightning
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- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
If you could weigh the coal going in and the ash coming out, for about a week, at least you would be able to vouch for some of those btu's.
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I will have to think about that one for a while. It's a 2 pass plate boiler like a Keystoker.McGiever wrote:Any way to lengthen gas path or hold gases longer before they exit fire box?
I could move the flue outlet down into the base. That would force the hot gas down further than it goes now. And as we all know, hot gases relese energy when the are forced down. That might squeeze a little more out of it, I'm not sure thats the problem though.
-Don
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Do you read temps internal to flue/stack and notice any higher exit temps now?
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
No, I only have a magnetic stove type on the flue outlet. When it's running hard that is just over 200 degrees. That has been fairly constent all along.McGiever wrote:Do you read temps internal to flue/stack and notice any higher exit temps now?
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Yesterday I went up to Wertz Coal Yard in Mechanicsburg PA and picked up 1.5 ton of medium buck and a trashcan full of hard barley to try out in the Yellow Flame. Sometime in the next week I will switch over to the buck and we will see what happens.
1.5 ton of medium buck pretty much filled the old truck. I don't think I could have squeezed much more in!
I made a bin divider out of a 4 foot x 4 foot piece of 3/4 inch plywood to keep the rice and buck seperated.
And there it is 1.5 ton of Buckwheat ready to burn!
And one trashcan full of hard Barley coal. 190 pounds.
-Don
1.5 ton of medium buck pretty much filled the old truck. I don't think I could have squeezed much more in!
I made a bin divider out of a 4 foot x 4 foot piece of 3/4 inch plywood to keep the rice and buck seperated.
And there it is 1.5 ton of Buckwheat ready to burn!
And one trashcan full of hard Barley coal. 190 pounds.
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Rob,
From what I understand, I should use the Barley or Rice in warmer weather and the Buck in the cold weather, is this correct?
If so, when there is a warm spell I will dump in the 190 pounds of Barley and see how it runs.
-Don
From what I understand, I should use the Barley or Rice in warmer weather and the Buck in the cold weather, is this correct?
If so, when there is a warm spell I will dump in the 190 pounds of Barley and see how it runs.
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I couldn't resist!
I just filled the hopper with the new medium Buckwheat coal. This will screw things up a little. I will have to wait until I go back to rice to try removing the DHW load to make it an apples to apples comparisson.
It was 4.5 buckets, that's 157.5 pounds, 78.75 pounds per day for the last 2 days.
Weighing the Buck showed just a shade under 35 pounds per bucket. The scale was zeroed with the 4x4 and the empty bucket.
And there's a shot of the whole operation, coal bin in the backround, chimney on top. The old white truck is resting after a hard days work yesterday.
I do not yet know if this Buckwheat will require any feed, air or timer adjustments, I guess we will find out. It will be interesting to see if 4.5 buckets of this stuff will last 2 days, I hope it does.
-Don
I just filled the hopper with the new medium Buckwheat coal. This will screw things up a little. I will have to wait until I go back to rice to try removing the DHW load to make it an apples to apples comparisson.
It was 4.5 buckets, that's 157.5 pounds, 78.75 pounds per day for the last 2 days.
Weighing the Buck showed just a shade under 35 pounds per bucket. The scale was zeroed with the 4x4 and the empty bucket.
And there's a shot of the whole operation, coal bin in the backround, chimney on top. The old white truck is resting after a hard days work yesterday.
I do not yet know if this Buckwheat will require any feed, air or timer adjustments, I guess we will find out. It will be interesting to see if 4.5 buckets of this stuff will last 2 days, I hope it does.
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I noticed burning the Buck that the fire was only making it 4 or 5 inches from the end of the grate on a long heat call. I increaced the feed rate to 3 (third from lowest out of 6) and closed down the contiuous blower to half way.
Current settings;
Feed rate= 3 (third from lowest out of 6)
Air= Closed down to about as much as it can be.
Keystoker continuous blower= about 1/2 opened.
Timer= 15 minute cycle, 8%, 72 seconds ON
Aquastat= 155/175 10 degree dif
Draft= -.02 at idle, Baro opening point -.04
Boiler Bypass= Full open
-Don
Current settings;
Feed rate= 3 (third from lowest out of 6)
Air= Closed down to about as much as it can be.
Keystoker continuous blower= about 1/2 opened.
Timer= 15 minute cycle, 8%, 72 seconds ON
Aquastat= 155/175 10 degree dif
Draft= -.02 at idle, Baro opening point -.04
Boiler Bypass= Full open
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Wow! This coal and these adjustments have made the whole thing feel very different.
With this grate settup, I need 2.5 to 3 inches of ash on the grate at max burn. With the rice coal, this was achieved at feed rate 2. Stack temp would get to just over 200 degrees. With the Buck and feed rate 3, the stack temp is up just below 300 degrees! And, the baro damper has to hang open to keep the dradt at -.04 or so. The fire door is a lot hotter and the flames are also a lot hotter.
It's hard to tell from the photos but in person the fire is much hotter than with the Rice coal. The only things that changed are the feed rate got bumped up 1, the continuous combustion blower got closed down to avoid overfiring the boiler at idle, and of coars the coal.
I hope this doesn't mean it's going to use more coal. If so, I will try the Barley.
-Don
With this grate settup, I need 2.5 to 3 inches of ash on the grate at max burn. With the rice coal, this was achieved at feed rate 2. Stack temp would get to just over 200 degrees. With the Buck and feed rate 3, the stack temp is up just below 300 degrees! And, the baro damper has to hang open to keep the dradt at -.04 or so. The fire door is a lot hotter and the flames are also a lot hotter.
It's hard to tell from the photos but in person the fire is much hotter than with the Rice coal. The only things that changed are the feed rate got bumped up 1, the continuous combustion blower got closed down to avoid overfiring the boiler at idle, and of coars the coal.
I hope this doesn't mean it's going to use more coal. If so, I will try the Barley.
-Don