Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

PostBy: rocklayer On: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:13 pm

I just purchased a keystoker 105 stove and have ordered a water heating coil to install in the stove so I can heat hot water. I have been doing a lot of reading on this sight to find information on what is the best way to hook up my stove to my existing hot water heater. My water heater is only 8' away from my stove so I should be able to hook up the stove using the Thermosiphon method. My question is i know that the stove and the water heater can't be more than 10' apart but dose it matter how much piping you use in between the two units? I want to come out of the stove and use 90 degree elbows so the feed and return line going to the water heater run up to the cealing across the floor joists and then back down to the water heater. I would not want to just run them straight to the water heater as the pipes will block the flow of traffic in my basement. There will be approximatley 16' of pipe in each direction. Also I would like to keep using my stove in the summer to heat my hot water so I would like to have a way that when the hot water heater senses that the water needs to be heated it would send a signal to coal stove to come out of idle mode and start to heat the hot water coil in the stove. I just not sure what sensor or what valving I would need to make it happen.
Thanks
rocklayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 105 Automatic stove

Re: Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:50 am

With the thermo siphon method, you probably have to have a shorter equivalent length, I think the 8' is the actually piping length. Plus, I think your one line needs to be lower then the other to flow thru the stove, if you run you lines up on the ceiling, you may require a pump and other control items. Also, probably a better idea to use a pump, then you can control it better for circulating the hot water when needed, especially in the summer so it doesn't get too hot.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

PostBy: rocklayer On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:37 am

Thanks for the info looks like I will be getting a circulating pump. One question I had about the pump is can you use a rheostat with a circulating pump to adjust the flow of water into the coil in the stove? The coil that is recomended by the manufacturer is only a single loop and they warned me about not having the flow too fast or the water won't be heated properly. I know that they sell 3 speed pumps but not sure if on the slowest speed setting if it is slow enough.
rocklayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 105 Automatic stove


Re: Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:10 pm

Hi rocklayer, buy one of the small brass body taco pumps that come up on ebay a lot... I think they are a taco 001 or 002. this will be big enough.. then put a full flow ball valve in the pipe circuit,, and use this valve to 'throttle down' the flow rate, this won't hurt the pump at all. Putting a reostat on the pump will hurt it, I don't think these type of pump motors will work with a reostat anyway... I could be wrong on this, but I DO KNOW that putting a valve to restrict flow does work, I use this principle several places in my boiler system.

You can even put a board or piece of cardboard behind the handle of the ball-valve and put marks where the handle should be located for 'x' amount of heat or flow. Makes for less guesswork.. this is how I control the heat in my shop concrete slab floor..

Hope this helps.
greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

PostBy: beatle78 On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:52 pm

Hi Greg,

Will restricting the flow with a ball valve put too much stress on the pump?

Would it be safer to put an aquastat on the line and let the aquastat control the pump? (like you guys had me do in my application) [see attached pic from Harman Magnum Manual]
beatle78
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker KA-4

Re: Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:01 pm

No stress on the pump or motor,, these type of pumps can run at a full stoped flow and be OK... If you put an aquastat in the circuit, you risk getting some VERY hot water in the loop in the stove... If you keep it moving it will not have a 'hot spot' and boil and flash to steam... blowing your PRV... Keep the water circulating.

These small cartridge circulators cost about the same as a light bulb to run... a taco 007, a 1/25hp pump burns .78 amps... about like a 100 watt light bulb.. the taco 002 is [I think] a 1/40hp pump, burns half that current... just about nothing.. and you won't need to restrict the flow very much... that deal about circulating too fast doesn't hold up well in practice... circulate the water... it gets heated with each pass, the faster each pass comes around the more heat is picked up... I could go on about this, but a high rate of circulation helps create turbulence, eliminate stratification layers [laminar flow ] which is bad for heat transfer..

The small taco pumps are often available for about $40 on Ebay.

Hope this helps.. Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

PostBy: 1975gt750 On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:31 pm

i just installed my keystoker 105 with a hot water coil and i am using a bronze circulator taco006b and my question is. i piped the hot water into the bottom of the hotwater heater and made the top the return. i had no istallation instruction because the coil came in the stove. went to the websight for hilkoil and they say to pump the hotwater into the top of the hotwater heater and make the bottom the return. does it really matter. i figure it is a closed system and it should not mater where the water circulates from but i could be wrong. can you guys help me clarify this problem.
1975gt750
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kaa-2
Coal Size/Type: rice coal / blaschak
Other Heating: pensotti oil boiler with riello 40 burner
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: kaa-2

Re: Heating hot water with 105 keystoker

PostBy: beatle78 On: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:20 am

LsFarm wrote:No stress on the pump or motor,, these type of pumps can run at a full stoped flow and be OK... If you put an aquastat in the circuit, you risk getting some VERY hot water in the loop in the stove... If you keep it moving it will not have a 'hot spot' and boil and flash to steam... blowing your PRV... Keep the water circulating.

These small cartridge circulators cost about the same as a light bulb to run... a taco 007, a 1/25hp pump burns .78 amps... about like a 100 watt light bulb.. the taco 002 is [I think] a 1/40hp pump, burns half that current... just about nothing.. and you won't need to restrict the flow very much... that deal about circulating too fast doesn't hold up well in practice... circulate the water... it gets heated with each pass, the faster each pass comes around the more heat is picked up... I could go on about this, but a high rate of circulation helps create turbulence, eliminate stratification layers [laminar flow ] which is bad for heat transfer..

The small taco pumps are often available for about $40 on Ebay.

Hope this helps.. Greg L

.



ahhhh.... thanks for the explanation.... ok, so you had me up until you said "eliminate stratification layers [laminar flow ]"..... wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow

Are you saying that some of the hot water could "stick" to the pipes and the cooler water could circulate inside of the outer "laminar" layer? If that's the case, in my setup I would want to set my differential temperature to 15F or 20F so I will get more circulation in the water correct? Sometimes my circ. pumps only kicks on for ~15 seconds or so before the aquastat kicks it off.
beatle78
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker KA-4