"Vogelzang Norseman 2500"

Hi All......

A newbie to the forum here, I own a Vogelzang Norseman 2500 for about 15 years..... I burned strictly wood with it....only problem I found, it loves wood..... I was running about 10 cords a Winter thru it....

This year, I switched to burning nut coal for the first time, and I'm having issues trying to control, and keep it lit.

Lightning and his articles on his Clayton have been a big help to me, and he suggested I post my "adventure" to the forum, I also used a few of his "mods"..... he also suggested I purchase a manometer, which I ordered, and it will be here next week....
My chimney, stove, and stove pipe are clean..... I can build/start the coal fire with no problem....shovel the coal on, I get the blue flame and plenty of heat....in fact, maybe a little too much heat, so I close the spin damper on the ash door, and back it out about a turn and a half.... in about an hour, it's just about out.....

I bought the small induction motor/fan from Vogelzang when I bought the furnace....but.....instead of mounting the motor in the threaded flange at the rear of the furnace, I used a hole saw, and mounted in on the ash door.....burning wood, I just flipped on the 1-30 minute timer I put on the motor for a few minutes, and the draft increased and started to burn the wood....works great....

A question I have for the Vogelzang owners, the threaded flange mount at the rear of the furnace, where does the forced air go if the motor is mounted on it??

At the moment, I have a MPD but have rarely used it.....but I have been trying all sorts of things to keep this coal glowing, and I'm not having much luck.

I think it's starving for air at times, but then it gets going real good, and I close things off somewhat, and the fire dies... when trying to revive the fire, it seems like it just lays there, even with the ash door wide open, I can sit in my chair in the garage, and watch it, give it an assist with the motor fan, and it doesn't seem to want to catch.....

I'm wide open for any tips, or suggestions from other Vogelzang/Clayton/US Stove owners....the furnace is similar....

Also, the smoke shelf inside the upper roof of the firebox is still in....I used it for wood burning, does it matter for burning coal?

Thanks in advance....

Tom S.
Nazareth,
pA

tomsusmc wrote:I get the blue flame and plenty of heat....in fact, maybe a little too much heat, so I close the spin damper on the ash door, and back it out about a turn and a half.... in about an hour, it's just about out.....

It sounds to me that your chimney is loosing draft when you try to settle the fire down. Pressure (chimney draft) dictates the volume of combustion air entering the primary air control. As the draft reduces, less combustion air is drawn in, the fire cools, making the chimney draft even less, which causes less combustion air, which reduces more draft and the cycle continues till it stalls.. The opposite happens if you have too much combustion air. The fire grows hotter, which increases draft, which draws more combustion air, which increases draft and so on till it heats you out of the room. I call it the yo-yo effect. I have delt with the yo yo.. It made for hundreds of trips up and down the basement stairs to adjust the primary combustion air. A barometric damper solved this problem for me..

tomsusmc wrote:I bought the small induction motor/fan from Vogelzang when I bought the furnace....but.....instead of mounting the motor in the threaded flange at the rear of the furnace, I used a hole saw, and mounted in on the ash door.....burning wood, I just flipped on the 1-30 minute timer I put on the motor for a few minutes, and the draft increased and started to burn the wood....works great....

I don't use a combustion fan. Not sure if its a help or not.

tomsusmc wrote:I think it's starving for air at times, but then it gets going real good, and I close things off somewhat, and the fire dies... when trying to revive the fire, it seems like it just lays there, even with the ash door wide open, I can sit in my chair in the garage, and watch it, give it an assist with the motor fan, and it doesn't seem to want to catch.....

This condition implies that maybe you aren't shaking enough. Shake till many red embers are falling and there is an orange glow radiating downward into the ash pan.

The manometer is going to be a huge help in diagnosing issues..

x2 what lightning said, and its possible that your garage is too air tight? and there just isnt enough oxygen to burn the coal after you get going, once again you will find out once you get the manometer hooked up, that thing will tell you all kinds of things. once you get this all figured out it you will love it! try cracking a window too let some more air in.

Thanks, Hotblast....

Garage is not that air-tight, and I usually have overhead door open/entrance door.....yes, waiting on manometer....

Tom

well I just say that because I too thought that my garage couldn't be that air tight, but my CO detectors went off in the house last night because I lost my draft, according to the my manometer, garage is off my basement, and I had to crack a window to regain my draft.

Is your stove pipe sealed well at all of the joints? I had a similar issue when I hooked up my cook stove. The chimney was pulling air through those leaks and not pulling the air up through the grates. It sounds to me like you are pulling air in from another source. Are all of the seams on the stove sealed well? The chimney is going to pull from the easiest place first and if that is before the grates, that could be your problem. One way to check that is light a cigarette, cigar, incense stick, etc. and go around the stove and chimney and see if any of the smoke gets pulled into the stove.

Hope this helps,
Randy

Do you have any thermometers on the stove or the black pipe? I've found over the years that a coal fire may not show any blue flames but still be producing a great deal of heat, particularly if I'm burning pea coal. The smaller size blocks the under the fire air flow and produces a smoldering fire. I can go days without seeing the blue ladies dance but have house at a toasty 75*. That's my bottom line. A thermometer on the stove's door will tell you if the fire is producing the heat you expect at the settings your stove is at. A thermometer on the black pipe will tell you how much heat is going up your chimney. Good Luck, Lisa

I have a thermometer on the pipe just above the MPD....., and no CO issues in house, or garage....all seams, and pipe fittings are tight.....

Tom

Are there any places air could be bypassing the coal bed? I believe I have read on here about people stuffing fiberglass insulation in different areas to force the air through the grates on the clayton / hotblast style stoves.

If my memory is correct it seemed those passages served wood burning (or bit coal) well to provide secondary air but made coal burning a challenge.

Post by Lightning - Clayton / Hot Blast Mods and Tending for Anthracite

tomsusmc wrote:I own a Vogelzang Norseman 2500 for about 15 years..... I burned strictly wood with it....only problem I found, it loves wood..... I was running about 10 cords a Winter thru it....

I see you've been successful with your set up for wood burning for a long time. Wood normally creates a lot of draft because it looses so much heat up the chimney. Coal is much more efficient, keeping more of the heat in the furnace to be used where you want it. Since less heat is used for drafting, coal can be a stickler when it comes maintaining an adequate draft. I think that when you install the mano, you are going to be surprised at what happens when you shut the garage up while the convection blowers are running (since there isn't a dedicated cold air return).

lowfog01 wrote:I've found over the years that a coal fire may not show any blue flames but still be producing a great deal of heat, particularly if I'm burning pea coal.

This is a great point too, wood burners are used to seeing a big burly fire. A coal fire doesn't usually show a lot of flame, sometimes none at all, but still produces a lot of heat.

Did you have a coal fire thru the night? How did it go?

Hi lowFog.... no, no fire last night.....when it wouldn't revive for me, I let the pea-picker go out.... I will wait for the Mano to come on Weds...and go from there.... Right now Amazon says it's in Des Moines, IA headed East...lol

Tom

I would agree with Titleist that the first thing to check is that air can not bypass the coal bed That was one of the first things Lightning did with his stove and found several spots. The manometer will tell you more.

Hi Franco.... Yes, I did Lightning's Mod to the end plates.....got those passages plugged with insulation to force the air up thru the grates..... in fact, I traced the outline of the plate on the insulation, and cut it to the shape of the end plates.....insulation is between the plates and the firebox wall......while cleaning the furnace, I also looked around inside for anyplace that air could possibly find it's way around, or above the fire, and found none..... I even removed the ash pan to see if that would allow more air to enter the ash pan door..... the fire still did not revive.....

Tom

On the subject of bypassing air. If your bed is shallow the air can bypass the burning part pretty easily. Look at Lightnings pics of the bed. With a manometer you can diagnose any draft problems.

Here's a short video I made. It's important to build the fuel bed up to the top of the fire bricks in layers when first starting a fire. It could take 80-100 pounds. Then control heat output with the ash pan door spinner (primary air control).

Starting a Coal Fire in a Hand Fed