Iso Therm Mixing Modules

I am attempting to plumb a small system with one concrete slab zone(3 loops/ 600 sq ft) one staple up zone(second floor 3 loops/600 sq ft) and one DHW indirect zone. I intend to use one of these with a primary /secondary and closely spaced tee's.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&so ... 2246,d.aWw

sorry I cant figure out how to just cut and paste the cut sheet.

anyhoo, Im wondering if any of you have any experience with these units or have any hints or
"watch out for's" in these type systems. I have tried reading material on the theory but I have a hard time learnig anything from a book So please weigh in and let me know what you think.

thanx
waldo

anybody, anybody at all? Bueller?

Never seen one until now. I've done a small primary/secondary loop with radiant loops before. What is the advantage of this thing compared to piping one up yourself?

Well I guess its supposed to take some of the guess work and ensuing "drama" out of these hybrid systems. They are made to bolt up to premade manifolds and and even control modules. Im going to try them on the recommendation of a friend I just made. He was raised in a family owned plumbing and heating business and then became a mech. engineer. When quizing him about pump sizing in primary/secondary systems he said " why don't you just use these things and "fahget aboud it" So Im gonna give it a try... When I get the thing I post up some pics or diagrams along with the results.

Pricey little devils, aren't they?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110894610992?_trksid=p205 ... EBIDX%3AIT

I wouldn't get too hung up on pumping rates - get close by whats necessary to supply the correct BTU to the load and control the rest

as for the contraption you post = that's for the rich and dumb. Its installed when you never want to get a call back
well until non-electric thermal valve sticks open

If I am going to baby sit a temperature reducing loop its going to have two manual butterfly valves and one pump sucking on the return. then add a few of Black iron fittings to build a contraption that will need little attention and don't break the bank.

But that's me! The same - only different.

oh = Buhler don't work on Sundays

Sting,

I didnt realize you didnt have sun. hours The takeaway on your post is , if Im getting it, "Fahget aboud it" . Seems thats Rob's take as well. Soooo, Im gonna call an audible here.Given my inability to absorb the written word , if I were to somehow figure out how to post a "bar nappy diagram" you guys might be able to keep me outa the ditch on this one?

Thanx in advance,

waldo

Old dead plumbers have been mixing different types of radiation since the beginning of wet system heating _ Like about when the Romans ruled NEPA



Then we got this thing called electricity and that "lead" to pumps that could be used in residential heating - wow did that open possibilities

But some smart guy figures out he could sell a prebuilt contraption and he didn't have to employ a pipe fitter with a brain
Plus he got the call back to fix the darn think when it stoned up in a year

here is one way to build a fault tolerant distribution system - as you limit flow to that second secondary loop you reduce its temperature and it successfully feeds the load at a lower BTU rate but its expensive to install - not just due to piping complexity - due to the control systems it employs to automatically control pump rates by outdoor reset



here is another way but it relies on those pesky non electric thermal limiting valves - the diagram is correct for use with them


now Ill show you a way to do this like a real boiler tender


opps wrong pic
call me a relic - call me what you will " Bob Segar"

My phone 411 is not pointing to a bar open this early

Ill have to drive across town to get a napkin

all right
try this


Start out with valve [2] wide open and valve [1] half or more closed and watch the temp of the water going out
Slowly open or close it for more or less - remember you want a little temp as possible and the most pumping as possible for an even and comfortable heat - try to avoid set back if set back time is less that 24 hours
if you can't get what you need then but not before begin to choke the flow with valve [2]

of course pumping is controlled by the zone or zones call for heat

now once you establish the valve positions - the full boiler temp water must be controlled by and outdoor reset so that in the shoulder seasons the boiler is running 145 - 160 and in the coldest of days its closet to 190

if your outdoor reset is set up correctly and you allow it to do its job you may never have to touch these two valves again - but here is where the true boiler tender steps in - you check those [reduced] supply and return temps on grab a valve once in a while -- YOU are the ECM - The Expensive control computer

Embrace it or buy the stuff of the dumb and rich
I should be drinking more than coffee - I hope I got this right -- It Depends

Kind Regards
Sting

Sting, that is a nice diagram and explanation. If you don't mind, please upload it as an attachment to your post...that why if you ax your photobucket accnt. the info is not lost to others looking for guidance.

I am sure you can draw it out nicer than my bar napkin and phone did
or someone with all the fancy web toolish things can
web site tools and files are not the fault tolerant answer either
I had a nice pic of this setup that I did a while back and uploaded it to the web site vs my photobucket
Well that site is gone now and so it the evidence that my hand were not shaking for about an hour one day

That was my second try at the napkin - spilled my rum and coffee on the first
and the I deleted it to protect the innocent

Think Like The Water!
as I eluded to above - this contraption will send energy to the load in an exponentially increasing or decreasing curve depending on only two things - and one of those is not a buggy thermal expanding valve

first - the boiler temp = you can manually adjust this as the season ebbs and flows but my choice is not to shackle myself in the boiler room like a roman slave - this is what Out Door Resets are for
second - valve one and two - and how you choke them - set them and leave them alone unless the manual or automatic boiler ODR isn't making the grade. Then slow and minimal adjustments only - let the system balance before you adjust again.

So attatched is a copy of what my proposed layout is. I think what your telling me is that rather than using the rich/dumb thing where I have drawn the mixing valve on zone one of two(not shown for clarity) I could insert the two valve bypass thing to temper the water going to my radiant loads. However to do this I would need to add an out door reset module which Im not averse to do , but I know nothing about them or how and where to wire them in. Too this is a rental unit and my final solution needs to be one that doesnt require me to tinker about from time to time. does this bring me back to the temperamental tempering valves? thanx again
waldo

waldo lemieux wrote:does this bring me back to the temperamental tempering valves?

IMG_20141117_180925_411.jpg

thanx again
waldo

It brings you to the place you want to be or the place of your choice

you have several options above

PICK ONE

your the boss
the big cheese
number one

or

THE HOME OWNER and I am simply a figment of the public internet

Kind Regards
Sting