Leisure Line Ak 220 Coal Furnace

 
lilbitfarm
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: leisure line ak 220
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lilbitfarm » Sun. Dec. 07, 2014 8:09 pm

We replaced our old oil furnace with the leisure line ak 220 coal furnace. We are having trouble figuring out the furnace. The blower seems to be running all the time. It will constantly push out air even when the air is not that hot. The thermostat is set for 70 during the day and 65 at night. It is reading 72 but the blowers never seem to shut off. We just installed it 24 hours ago, and have gone through 4 bags of rice coal already. At that rate this furnace will be much more costly then our old oil furnace. our feed rate is set at 37. Not sure what we are doing wrong, again we are knew to the coal furnace and are having a difficult time finding answers to our questions. So we were very pleased when we found this forum .


 
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windyhill4.2
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Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Dec. 07, 2014 9:27 pm

Welcome to the forum.If you can ,try to fill your profile in to include where you live so that question isn't asked on a continuing basis & maybe someone is close enough to you to stop in & help you figure it out. If the blower is running regardless of the plenum temp it would seem likely that a control is wired wrong,set wrong,or functioning wrong.Along with your location,the sq.footage being heated & more info on type of building,insulation,etc. would help to determine normal coal usage. You mention burning 4 bags of coal.are they 40 or 50 # as that makes quite a different total. More members will be along to share their knowledge and or thoughts.

 
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Rick 386
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Location: Royersford, Pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work
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Post by Rick 386 » Sun. Dec. 07, 2014 10:08 pm

Yep with the air distribution blower running all the time, it sure sounds like something is not wired properly.

Re read the install instructions. Might just be a wire or 2 switched at install time.

I think the combustion blower (the one blowing air up through the grates ) should run all time. Then the coal will feed based on temps needed.

If all else fails, I know the owners will be in the shop tomorrow and can help. Have you contacted your installer to have him check it ????

Rick

 
coalnewbie
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Location: Chester, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
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Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Mon. Dec. 08, 2014 3:10 am

Welcome to the board. I own a AK180 that is basically the same stove. First of all you have bought one of the very best so calm down and we will figure this thing out. No way is oil going to be cheaper unless you are blowing hot air out of the window! You have just landed on coal easy street. Four bags may or may not be right, let's find out. I have 4 seasons with AK 110s and now the bigger AK180 is eating out of my hand - fully tamed -total house temperature control. We will get you to the same status. I do not necessarily agree with the above posters you are probably just fine.

So, where do you live, how big a house is it heating and how well insulated are you. I ask this as I am trying to estimate how hard the stove is having to work. You are a coal newbie so first things first and then let's dig into this:

Do you have two CO detectors up and working.
Who installed the stove and showed you how to work it.
Where is the thermostat in relation to the stove
What is CFT set at?
Fan speed should be set at FSA not FSM and then a number
FR should be adjusting itself according to need, why do you say it is set?
The distribution fan is running and I suspect that is normal but we need to find out how hard the stove is having to run see above.
Do you one or two stokers lit
What is MAX
What is MIN
Room temp set during day
Room temp set during night
What temp is your house now
Have you read the coal trol manual and can we help explain anything.

The stove is a piece of cake to run so let's just go through the simple steps to running that monster. LL are very customer orientated and will help if necessary but this time of the year they are busy so before calling the big boys let's tame this thing.

We love pics..... that happens to be a coal burner thing but generally also gives a LOT of info that can help us.

I promise you one thing, once you understand the beast you will be in love. These stoves kick a$$.

It's 3;40AM, 10* with wind chill and I have a BIG house.
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"Big blue" working fairly hard

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River of fire, super power and super clean

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Sorry about the focus, I am in a rush. I just wanted to make you feel at home. :D Talk to you later...

 
lilbitfarm
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Posts: 9
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: leisure line ak 220
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lilbitfarm » Mon. Dec. 08, 2014 10:32 pm

I appreciate everyone's responses. And let me first start off by apologizing for not knowing many of the answers to your questions. We bought the AK 220 from a coal dealer. My husband and father in law installed the furnace them selves. We were told everything we would need to know would be in the DVD that came with the furnace. For the most part the DVD was helpful. No one has showed us how to work this furnace. We have spent hours trying to Google information about what all the codes / feed rate/ etc mean and what they should be set too. We were able to get the second burner lit tonight and that has made a huge difference in the heat output. before we had barely warm air blowing out and was constantly blowing. Here is what I can tell you so far about our set up, again I apologize for the lack of both information and understanding at this point.
Plus we know our existing duct work is awful and we are planning on redoing it completely in the spring

Our house size aprox 2600 sq ft
Old farm house built in the 1890's
Little to no insulation in some rooms
some newer windows some single pain older windows.
We live in Richland NY, near Pulaski Ny average temps now 30 during the days , teens at night and can get 15 below coming January.
We have to wrap every window in plastic

We have the day time temp set at 68 and the night time set for 65, our old fuel oil furnace would need to be set at 72 just to make the house warm, not hot, but warm.
The thermostat is upstairs in our living room while the furnace is in the basement , it is not located by any heating ducts.
my husband set the min/ max to 25 which was blowing cold air, switched to 40 which was making hot coals jump and set off the smoke detectors, then adjusted to 35 which seems to be keeping the 2" of ash after the flames as per the book.

I can not apologize enough for not knowing more specific details.

it is set to FSA
FR57
min 6
max 30
FDR 2
CFT 8

it is currently reading 75 in the house and the thermostat is set for 68, blowers are still pushing out hot air.

My husband biggest frustration is not understanding what the codes mean and what the ideal setting should be. He said if he understood what the min max cft etc, all meant then he could gain a better understanding of the furnace. He is a Journeymen Linemen, he has a great understanding of how most things work, yet this furnace is getting the best of him.

I appreciate all your patience and help , I can not thank you enough

 
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Pauliewog
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
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Coal Size/Type: Stove, Chesnut, Pea, Rice / Anthracite

Post by Pauliewog » Mon. Dec. 08, 2014 11:19 pm

I don't see a barometric damper on your furnace exhaust. Do you have one installed?
Paul

 
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Post by titleist1 » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 12:35 am

Here is a link to some explanation of the coaltrol settings in case you hadn't found it. It may help your understanding of how to set it up. Make small changes, one at a time and give them about an hour to take full effect before making another change.

Tips & Tricks


 
coalnewbie
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Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: Chester, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 1:26 am

Don't worry about the Barometric damper that is the least of your problems.

I assume you installed the flu correctly and the ducting is from your old oil heat system. Does your cold air return go back to the air box ... send a photo. Good cold air returns are essential to air circulation as your out air ducting is impressive. So let's go in baby steps. I have to make some assumptions the first being that the wiring is correct.

First your safety is paramount, install a CO detector and then let's get to work.
My husband biggest frustration is not understanding what the codes mean and what the ideal setting should be. He said if he understood what the min max cft etc, all meant then he could gain a better understanding of the furnace
Your husband sounds like a bright guy so basic principles will be easy to understand.

The thermostat temperature setting are obvious but I get it that this MAX/MIN thing is confusing so let's understand the difference between oil and coal.

Oil is easier, when you turn on the oil furnace the fuel starts pumping, ignition follows and things warm up rapidly. When room temperature is reached the thermostat shuts off, the furnace shuts down completely and instantly and there is zero flame but then the room cools a few degrees, the thermostat energizes and the cycle starts again. So the cycle is ON/OFF.

With coal its a little more involved as coal fires are tough to start (they just take a while) and getting a coal fire going is far from instantaneous so the cycle is not ON/OFF it's high heat/low heat but in normal operation never off. MAX is the high heat setting and MIN is the low heat setting. If the stove just switched off when the room temperature reached say 70* you would need to light the stove and start again. Automatic ignitors have been tried but are still in development. MIN means the coal stove is not off, it's just idling but still alight waiting for the thermostat to tell it to switch on again and feed the coal at a rate according to the MAX setting. In your part of the world and given the estimated heat load let's start with MIN=8 and MAX=30. 40 is too high as unburnt coal spills off the end of the stoker and will fall into the ash bin, your MAX varies a bit with coal type but is probably 30 to 35 but never higher.

As we go through the menu on setup let's make MIN=8, MAX=30, CFT (don't worry for now what it is we will comeback to that one) =30, FR is for information only it's telling you how much coal is feeding automatically so again ignore that one for now. You have both stokers alight so FDR=2 and then EXIT. Your now set, done, ready to enjoy life. Set the time for day feeding to start the temperature say 72* and do the same for night time. Assuming you have installed it correctly and now comes the hard part just stop twiddling and leave it for a day to settle down. Coal needs patience. Let's get to that point and report back to us. Then you will learn the art of fine tuning and how to monitor stove safety.

Don't get worried, we are here along with layers of coal experts backing us up to help you more. Don't worry about modest temperature overshoot we will cover that one in further lessons. When you report back I need to know what room temperatures were obtained with this setting and how things are settling down. If it gets a little too hot open the window.

Don't feel stupid everyone was a coal newbie once and the only silly questions are the ones you don't ask.

OK, I am waiting ........ easy peasy, you just arrived on coal easy street - congrats.

It's 1:40AM, a have an oversized leaky Victorian house, the AK180 stove is at the other end of the downstairs basement, I set night time temperatures for 68*, let's check how I am doing here in the living room. It's 20* outside, not so cold tonight... we got a storm coming...
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Yawn - perfect again

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I'm off to bed - g'night.

 
lilbitfarm
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Posts: 9
Joined: Sun. Dec. 07, 2014 7:50 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: leisure line ak 220
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lilbitfarm » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 7:52 am

I can not thank you enough for all your help. Yes we have a barometric damper installed , sorry it is further up the stove pipe closer to the chimney. We have several co2 detectors installed along with new smoke detectors. last night the stove seemed to run very well so I think we might be on our way to figuring it out.

Ok I have it set at:
Min 8
Max 30
Fdr 2

thermostat set for 69 day time and is holding very well, without the blower running non stop.
I just checked the coal and the seem to be more then 2 inches now from the end. ?

The only cold air to the furnace right now is through the blower box located on the floor. We bought the metal box with filter to go around the fan and were told that we could use that as a cold air return until spring when we reran the duct work??? Not sure if that is enough for a cold air return or not. we were told we did not have to hook up our original cold air returns to the furnace if we bought that box with filter.

We have another issue with hot hair blowing out of the front of the unit around the seems to the black front and where the blue sides meet. Sorry for the lack of technical terms. LOL( at least I have not used "Thing-a-ma-gigy" yet. )

Also will there always a smell when the furnace first starts blowing again?

I will show everything to my husband and get back to you.

Again I thank you so much for holding our hand and getting us through figuring out this new furnace.

Attachments

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barometric damper

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this is the only cold air return

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coal seem to be more then 2 inched from the end this morning

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placement of damper

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where hot air pushes out of furnace

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coalnewbie
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Posts: 8601
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: Chester, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 8:08 am

I love it when a plan comes together! Provided you are not bored with us we are going to cover many aspects of coal heat. All are on this board somewhere but yes we will hold your hand until you are tired of us. When you are ready we will go onto lesson 2. We will start with that smell and that is not normal. So when you are ready.
We have another issue with hot hair blowing out of the front of the unit around the seems to the black front and where the blue sides meet.
Don't worry about that one.

 
lilbitfarm
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Posts: 9
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: leisure line ak 220
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lilbitfarm » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 8:21 am

Ok so I adjusted the min from 6 to 8 and below is a picture of the coals now. the Temperature went up to 74 still set for 69. the blower has turned off but every few seconds pops on but only for seconds at a time?
Hope I did not break it!!

and absolutely not bored, actually very grateful. I have forward your replies to my husband and he is finding them very helpful. so again Thank you and keep the lessons coming. We want to make sure we get this right .

Attachments

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coals now after min 6 changed to min 8

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coalnewbie
Member
Posts: 8601
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: Chester, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 8:31 am

I know exactly what is happening and how to fix it and no you did not break anything, do not worry about that one for now. Send a photo of your temperature sensor in relation to the stove. You are doing just fine. This thing will be eating out your hand very soon.

There are many things to cover but one setting I am sure is confusing you CFT.

So from the coal trol manufacturers themselves I quote
Convection Fan Threshold sets which FR (feedrate) the convection blower will first turn on.

By increasing this value you will be increasing the size the fire is allowed to get to before the convection fan turns on, effectively increasing the temperature of the air it will blow at minimum speed.

We, of course, recommend leaving this setting at default value. However, people and installation needs are different, so if you feel that the stove is blowing "cold" air when it first kicks on, you can increase this value to remedy that. On some stoves and installations people have opted to actually decrease this setting in order to have the blower come on at lower fire sizes because they felt there was still room to lower it without it blowing cold air at minimum speed.

It is entirely up to you where you want it set, but if you have no particular complaint about the air the blower is moving out of the stove when first kicking on then leave it alone. :)
So now you know - leave it alone for now.

 
lilbitfarm
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Posts: 9
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: leisure line ak 220
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lilbitfarm » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 8:53 am

temperature sensor? going to look for it now. and the blower has stop cycling on and off. temp on thermostat now reads 72

ok sorry I just took pictures of every kind of possible switch I could find lol

Thanks again for putting up with me

Attachments

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Last edited by lilbitfarm on Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
coalnewbie
Member
Posts: 8601
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: Chester, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 9:16 am

How cool is that. :D Yesterday I could not even spell coal expert but today I is one.. :D :D The temperature sensor looks like this
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On top of the stove somewhere

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OK, what does it do and why am I mentioning it now? As the stove starts to warm up the big outlet pipes start to get warm. When they get to 100* the big fan comes on (that is called the distribution fan as it distributes the warm air). There are two other little fans that blow air through the coal to make it nice and hot and they are called combustion fans (no surprises there). The dist. fan stays on until it gets below 100* that way like a car heater, cold air does not rush out of the heating ducts upstairs. There is an emergency high limit of 200* and we will get into that one later (perhaps). Let's just concentrate on the stuff you need to know for now.

When the outlet pipes first get to 100* the big fan can't make up it's mind whether it should be on or off and that is what was happening. Happily, it has now decided to be on as we changed MIN to 8 and the air temp is now always over 100*. It may not switch off again this winter. That is just fine.

 
coalnewbie
Member
Posts: 8601
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: Chester, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 9:44 am

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Yep, you found the sneaky little devil right where it should be, great. The next thing we need to cover as a stove operator is coal in and ash out. You want the place place warmer turn up the thermostat and that is it. A little sermon about coal in and ashes out and your done. The rest is husband stuff if he wants to talk to us. The lessons will continue if he wishes.

OK, the coal goes into the hopper, replace the lid after filling. The ashes out is a bit more involved with these stoves. I will break off here for now.


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