DS Circulator Stove VRS, Radiant Stove
- oliver power
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- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
Here I go again......... I must sound like a broken record. The D.S. Machine circulator stove has circulator tubes which run through the fire box. Heated air rises naturally, pulling cool air from the floor, and so the cycle begins. I get that.... Now, lets look at a radiant stove. A radiant stove heats up it's mass. The heat coming off it's mass rises naturally, just like the D.S. Machine circulator. Isn't that kind of the same thing? I mean, Come on............ Does the D.S. Machine Circulator actually do that much better of a job circulating heat? I sure hope so, as I just ordered the DS. 1600 Circulator for the shop. Hope I didn't make a mistake. Local Amish man is becoming a D.S. Machine dealer. Thought I'd play with a different toy. I grew up burning wood in radiant stoves. They'd be glowing red quite often. The heat would naturally rise. Still, a fan behind the stove made a big difference in circulation. And how about comparing the D.S. Circulator to the HITZER with fan on low. I can't say enough good about the HITZER 50-93. It is a GREAT stove, as is the 30-95. Guess I'll be getting some first hand experience come next season. For now, the 30-95 is doing a great job. Probably won't swap it out this year. Thanks for any opinions, Oliver
Last edited by oliver power on Mon. Dec. 08, 2014 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Differences are only in proportion of heat radiated as opposed to heated air circulated. Both do both.
- Coalfire
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I do notice with the DS the basement is not so fierce hot, the basement and the living level are much more even in temp. This was not so when we had the gibralter. I do think those tubes are doing something.
As a side not why did you go with the 1600, that is twice the size of the 30-95. If the 30 is working with no problems you are not going to be able to run the 1600 hard enough, which will lead to puff backs. I actually sold my 1600 to a buddy that has a house with no insulation he runs it around 600 all the time, I could never run over 300 would drive us out the house. So now I have a 1500 and its great its sweet spot is around 450
Eric
As a side not why did you go with the 1600, that is twice the size of the 30-95. If the 30 is working with no problems you are not going to be able to run the 1600 hard enough, which will lead to puff backs. I actually sold my 1600 to a buddy that has a house with no insulation he runs it around 600 all the time, I could never run over 300 would drive us out the house. So now I have a 1500 and its great its sweet spot is around 450
Eric
- oliver power
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- Posts: 2970
- Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
The reason for D.S. Machine is new toy, and completely quiet(no fan). Reason for 1600 is once I open the wall of the new addition, I'd have to push the 30-95 harder than I like. I'll be heating double the area. I have a 50-93. Since I installed central hot water heat, and KEYSTOKER boiler, my mother has been heating with it. I don't want to take it back from her. I went back & fourth between the D.S. 1500, and 1600. I thought the bigger would be easier to sell if it doesn't meet my expectations. It's not too late to change the order. Is there a reason you'd recommend the 1500? Do you think the 1500 would be a better match for the average home? OliverCoalfire wrote:I do notice with the DS the basement is not so fierce hot, the basement and the living level are much more even in temp. This was not so when we had the gibralter. I do think those tubes are doing something.
As a side not why did you go with the 1600, that is twice the size of the 30-95. If the 30 is working with no problems you are not going to be able to run the 1600 hard enough, which will lead to puff backs. I actually sold my 1600 to a buddy that has a house with no insulation he runs it around 600 all the time, I could never run over 300 would drive us out the house. So now I have a 1500 and its great its sweet spot is around 450
Eric
Last edited by oliver power on Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
- oliver power
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- Posts: 2970
- Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
I've considered the 1500, which is rated closer to the HITZER 50-93.LDPosse wrote:I will be interested to hear your results. I ran my ds1500 for 2 years and the heat output of that stove was incredible.
- oliver power
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- Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
How big is your home? How well insulated? What are your room temps at? OliverLDPosse wrote:I will be interested to hear your results. I ran my ds1500 for 2 years and the heat output of that stove was incredible.
I am no longer living at that house, but I ran the DS there for 2 heating seasons. The basement generally stayed in the 80s, the first floor 73-74° and 69-70° on the 2nd floor. The house is a side by side duplex. The 2 halves are separated by an 8" thick concrete wall in the basement, and the wall in between is heavily insulated the rest of the way up. I was only effectively heating my half of the house, which was approximately 1400 sq ft. There is a mix of roll insulation and blown in cellulose in the ceiling, and the exterior walls are mostly uninsulated, save for a small addition on the back of the house.oliver power wrote:How big is your home? How well insulated? What are your room temps at? Oliver
I ran the stove with the bimetal stat at about 2 3/4 most of the winter, except for when we had those exceptional cold snaps, I had it running around 4 on the stat.
- Lightning
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Yeah, I think its the same thing.. Difference being, the "circulation tubes" add a huge amount of heat transfer area that a simple radiant stove doesn't have. My buck-ninety five worth...oliver power wrote:The D.S. Machine circulator stove has circulator tubes which run through the fire box. Heated air rises naturally, pulling cool air from the floor, and so the cycle begins. I get that.... Now, lets look at a radiant stove. A radiant stove heats up it's mass. The heat coming off it's mass rises naturally, just like the D.S. Machine circulator. Isn't that kind of the same thing?
- oliver power
- Member
- Posts: 2970
- Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
Thanks Lightning, Your buck-ninety five has me thinking a little deeper. There is something about the D.S. Machine circulator I'm trying to wrap my mind around, and I believe you just helped me do that. The old saying "Hot always goes to cold" ...... The simple act of radiating heat. Heat builds in the fire box, transfers through the steal, and radiates into the room. Because the fire is putting out BTU's at a faster rate than the transfer through the steel, excess heat is lost up the chimney. In the case of the D.S. Circulator, not only is it radiating heat, the excess BTU's are DRAWN out of the firebox through the cooler surface area of the circulator tubes, and less going up the chimney. So, the D.S. Circulator stove does two functions at the same time. It Radiates And Draws heat from the firebox. The D.S. Circulator radiates heat through the side walls for heating. Then uses the excess build up of heat in the firebox to move the already radiated heat around the room. In other words; The D.S. Circulator is not primarily heating the room with heat from the circulator tubes. The additional BTU's coming out of the circulator tubes acts like a fan, pushing the already radiated heat around. The hotter, more dominate heat coming out of the circulator tubes displaces (pushes) the existing, already heated air throughout the room. And it's the steady, non-stop pushing of heated air that warms the furthest points of the room. Yes, Both do Both, as franco b put it.Lightning wrote:Yeah, I think its the same thing.. Difference being, the "circulation tubes" add a huge amount of heat transfer area that a simple radiant stove doesn't have. My buck-ninety five worth...oliver power wrote:The D.S. Machine circulator stove has circulator tubes which run through the fire box. Heated air rises naturally, pulling cool air from the floor, and so the cycle begins. I get that.... Now, lets look at a radiant stove. A radiant stove heats up it's mass. The heat coming off it's mass rises naturally, just like the D.S. Machine circulator. Isn't that kind of the same thing?
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Nice theory. Does not work well, IMHO. A fan helps.oliver power wrote:The additional BTU's coming out of the circulator tubes acts like a fan, pushing the already radiated heat around.
- oliver power
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- Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
Yes rberq, Just a theory. The members with D.S Circulator stoves claim the stove circulates well. Question is; what does each member consider "circulating well". If the D.S. Circulator stove really does circulate as well as claimed, I'm trying to figure it out. I know how well the HITZER E-Z Flow stoves circulate air........and that's very well. What attracts me to the D.S. Circulator is the silence (No Fan). I'm really hoping the D.S. Circulates as claimed. It is going in a shop, so I can afford to sacrifice some performance if needed. Going back to my previous theory of both radiant, and circulator tubes working together, I can see possible good circulation. Another example of this theory: You have a cloud of smoke in a room (radiant heat). With your mouth (Circulator tubes), you can blow that cloud of smoke all over the place. Oliverrberq wrote:Nice theory. Does not work well, IMHO. A fan helps.oliver power wrote:The additional BTU's coming out of the circulator tubes acts like a fan, pushing the already radiated heat around.
Last edited by oliver power on Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- oliver power
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- Posts: 2970
- Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
So my theory sounds accurate to you? I'm looking forward to playing with the D.S. Circulator stove.coalfan wrote:VERY WELL PUT OLIVER POWER VERY GOOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DAM GOOD STOVES
- Lightning
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OK.. Hold an incense, lit cigarette or a small smoldering piece of card board where the inlets are for those tubes.. I'll bet ya it moves air a lot better than you think.oliver power wrote:If the D.S. Circulator stove really does circulate as well as claimed, I'm trying to figure it out.