Ash, Fine Dust, Chunks, Coal Pebbles, What Does It Tell You

 
dumper
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu. Nov. 13, 2014 10:38 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Baker Fireside Insert
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut
Other Heating: Oil

Post by dumper » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 8:12 pm

I've been burning coal a whole 3 weeks. I have been keeping the fire going 24-7 for 2-1/2 of the 3 weeks once I got some advice on poking and ash shake down. I stopped dumping the coals. I have another question, from searching it seems as though coal quality is the number one answer, however what else causes the difference in ash I am seeing? Sometimes I am seeing very fine white dust type ash, some times a mix of dust, large chunks, small chunks, and pebble size black unburnt coal. Is the goal to get all dust? What's the trick to that? Am I shaking too frequently for the amount I am burning? I am shaking ~12hrs, burning somewhere around 50 to 75ish lbs over a 24hr period. Stove temp is mostly at 3-350, when it drops below 20 I crank it up a bit, 4-500 depending on the house temp. Although I haven't run it at 4-500 for more than an hour; so mostly 3-350 so far. Should I be letting it go longer?


 
grimmy
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun. Mar. 02, 2014 7:50 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Dovre
Coal Size/Type: nut

Post by grimmy » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 8:31 pm

When your burning your hand fired. I wouldn't worry about the sizing of your ash. Your going to get fly ash to chunks. Your unburned pebble size pieces might not be coal at all. Could be vessel rock, or what is referred to as bone. A slate rock that divides the coal vein from the jackstone. Depending on the breaker cleaning process, or the quality of the coal, depends on how much bone is in the coal. When you purchase coal from a breaker, you can ask them what their ash percent is in the coal. Lower percent means higher quality coal. A breaker with a slower production time, makes higher quality coal. So does a breaker that uses a float, or table separation versus a spiral or pump system.

 
User avatar
Pancho
Member
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat. Feb. 01, 2014 4:00 pm
Location: Michigan
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood No. 8
Coal Size/Type: Stove
Other Heating: Jotul Firelight

Post by Pancho » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 8:36 pm

dumper wrote:I've been burning coal a whole 3 weeks. I have been keeping the fire going 24-7 for 2-1/2 of the 3 weeks once I got some advice on poking and ash shake down. I stopped dumping the coals. I have another question, from searching it seems as though coal quality is the number one answer, however what else causes the difference in ash I am seeing? Sometimes I am seeing very fine white dust type ash, some times a mix of dust, large chunks, small chunks, and pebble size black unburnt coal. Is the goal to get all dust? What's the trick to that? Am I shaking too frequently for the amount I am burning? I am shaking ~12hrs, burning somewhere around 50 to 75ish lbs over a 24hr period. Stove temp is mostly at 3-350, when it drops below 20 I crank it up a bit, 4-500 depending on the house temp. Although I haven't run it at 4-500 for more than an hour; so mostly 3-350 so far. Should I be letting it go longer?
I too am new to the coal scene but I can tell you what I've learned in my Glenwood #8:

Running on the cool side (400 or below on the barrel), I get chunky coal ash with nut size coal. With stove size, it's not as bad...seems to get a more complete burn but still get a few bits of hard ash.

If I shake it too often, I get partially burnt coal in the ash.

When I run hot, burning stove size coal, I get ash like talc....real fine, no chunks.

Lots of variables.
What is your setup?.

 
dumper
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu. Nov. 13, 2014 10:38 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Baker Fireside Insert
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut
Other Heating: Oil

Post by dumper » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 9:15 pm

grimmy wrote:When your burning your hand fired. I wouldn't worry about the sizing of your ash. Your going to get fly ash to chunks. Your unburned pebble size pieces might not be coal at all. Could be vessel rock, or what is referred to as bone. A slate rock that divides the coal vein from the jackstone. Depending on the breaker cleaning process, or the quality of the coal, depends on how much bone is in the coal. When you purchase coal from a breaker, you can ask them what their ash percent is in the coal. Lower percent means higher quality coal. A breaker with a slower production time, makes higher quality coal. So does a breaker that uses a float, or table separation versus a spiral or pump system.
Interesting. I'm definitely going to be looking for coal processing videos. I'm getting the stuff from American coal, bagged nut, comes from Kimmel.

 
dumper
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu. Nov. 13, 2014 10:38 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Baker Fireside Insert
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut
Other Heating: Oil

Post by dumper » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 9:24 pm

Pancho wrote:
dumper wrote:I've been burning coal a whole 3 weeks. I have been keeping the fire going 24-7 for 2-1/2 of the 3 weeks once I got some advice on poking and ash shake down. I stopped dumping the coals. I have another question, from searching it seems as though coal quality is the number one answer, however what else causes the difference in ash I am seeing? Sometimes I am seeing very fine white dust type ash, some times a mix of dust, large chunks, small chunks, and pebble size black unburnt coal. Is the goal to get all dust? What's the trick to that? Am I shaking too frequently for the amount I am burning? I am shaking ~12hrs, burning somewhere around 50 to 75ish lbs over a 24hr period. Stove temp is mostly at 3-350, when it drops below 20 I crank it up a bit, 4-500 depending on the house temp. Although I haven't run it at 4-500 for more than an hour; so mostly 3-350 so far. Should I be letting it go longer?
I too am new to the coal scene but I can tell you what I've learned in my Glenwood #8:

Running on the cool side (400 or below on the barrel), I get chunky coal ash with nut size coal. With stove size, it's not as bad...seems to get a more complete burn but still get a few bits of hard ash.

If I shake it too often, I get partially burnt coal in the ash.

When I run hot, burning stove size coal, I get ash like talc....real fine, no chunks.

Lots of variables.
What is your setup?.
It's a baker fireside insert. I'm burning nut. After reading some posts here I have been wanting to buy a bag of stove and try it out. The grate fingers have a fairly large opening. I also seem to be getting some fines and small chunks in the coal bags. The stuff at the top of the bag is larger, smaller stuff falls to the bottom. The larger pieces seem to burn better, smaller pieces and fines seem to snuff it a bit. I'm not sifting though, I bought it so I'm burning it. Since its warmer tonight, I'm skipping tonight's shake and fill, and going to shake and fill in the am, ~24hrs between tending. Hopefully I won't regret that. May change my mind and shake/fill around 11, then leave it all day tomorrow.

 
User avatar
michaelanthony
Member
Posts: 4550
Joined: Sat. Nov. 22, 2008 10:42 pm
Location: millinocket,me.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box stove
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Gold Marc Independence
Baseburners & Antiques: Home Sparkle 12
Coal Size/Type: 'nut
Other Heating: Fujitsu mini split, FHA oil furnace

Post by michaelanthony » Tue. Dec. 09, 2014 9:57 pm

There are somethings mentioned here that are new to me, (learn something new every day), and speaking from experience and hind sight I would bet my first winter burning coal I threw away 2 - 3 hundred pounds of coal. I remember thinking how cool it was to clean out the stove and start a fresh fire because a fresh fire always and I repeat, always! is the best when you are new. It has taken me about 4 yrs to realize what the hell I am doing and just as long to find out what the hell my stoves are doing by being patient and leaving my stoves alone. I enjoy watching the Vigilant get all ashed up after 20 - 24 hrs without touching and then doing a nice cleaning while keeping the fire going.
Be patient and leave the stove alone, start a good fire and watch the thermo's on the stove and let the stove tell you when it's running out of fuel... soon you know when to touch it. Best of luck with the beast.

 
User avatar
Formulabruce
Member
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat. Feb. 02, 2013 8:02 pm
Location: in the "Shire" ( New Hamp -shire)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon Mark 1 Goldenfire
Coal Size/Type: BLASHAK Nut and Stove size
Other Heating: Blower from a gas furnace if I need to move air, no heat

Post by Formulabruce » Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 1:52 am

Dumper, I have a friend nearby who has a Baker insert. He runs the same Blackshack " 'Nut" coal that I do. He and his wife do 12 hours between service, and the thing really cranks out heat with that front side mounted blower. I think he said he uses about 40lbs a day, till dead of winter, and does 50 lbs then, at the coldest part of winter. That is a heavy steel unit with lots of surface area. besides having room to cook for a family of six on top, I am certain you'll be warm this winter!! Good luck!
PS. I saw him empty his ash pan last weekend. It had a mix, mostly ash and some ( not too many) small white chunks, marble or smaller in size..


 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 5:21 am

Stove design and present condition, draft conditions, coal quality, and operator technique. The number of variables is so much that there's bound to be big differences in how the end results look.

Paul

 
User avatar
blrman07
Member
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon. Sep. 27, 2010 3:39 pm
Location: Tupelo Mississippi

Post by blrman07 » Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 5:54 am

michaelanthony wrote:There are somethings mentioned here that are new to me, (learn something new every day), and speaking from experience and hind sight I would bet my first winter burning coal I threw away 2 - 3 hundred pounds of coal. I remember thinking how cool it was to clean out the stove and start a fresh fire because a fresh fire always and I repeat, always! is the best when you are new. It has taken me about 4 yrs to realize what the hell I am doing and just as long to find out what the hell my stoves are doing by being patient and leaving my stoves alone. I enjoy watching the Vigilant get all ashed up after 20 - 24 hrs without touching and then doing a nice cleaning while keeping the fire going.
Be patient and leave the stove alone, start a good fire and watch the thermo's on the stove and let the stove tell you when it's running out of fuel... soon you know when to touch it. Best of luck with the beast.
This is my first year with the VC 2310 hand fired stove. I have had a couple of hand fired's and stokers in the past but this one is the most reliable. It has been the easiest to de-ash while it is running. I lit off on Sept 14 and only shut down one time over Thanksgiving to check for ash buildup. Not enough to get concerned about. It heats our whole house, very nicely I might add, so I am always burning it in the top range of capacity. I have gone from 100% pea during the warmer times to range coal (mix of pea and nut) to 100% nut now. The nut burns hotter but doesn't last as long as pea or range at the temps I burn at. Like MA said every stove, location, installation, and operator is different giving you different results. You will settle in on what works best for you!!

 
dumper
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu. Nov. 13, 2014 10:38 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Baker Fireside Insert
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut
Other Heating: Oil

Post by dumper » Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 7:12 am

Formulabruce wrote:Dumper, I have a friend nearby who has a Baker insert. He runs the same Blackshack " 'Nut" coal that I do. He and his wife do 12 hours between service, and the thing really cranks out heat with that front side mounted blower. I think he said he uses about 40lbs a day, till dead of winter, and does 50 lbs then, at the coldest part of winter. That is a heavy steel unit with lots of surface area. besides having room to cook for a family of six on top, I am certain you'll be warm this winter!! Good luck!
PS. I saw him empty his ash pan last weekend. It had a mix, mostly ash and some ( not too many) small white chunks, marble or smaller in size..
Finally someone who knows of this thing for comparison. I have a pretty good amount of chunks, more like chunks with fine ash mixed in. 40Lbs a day, man I wonder what he is doing in those 12hrs that I am doing differently; I feel like I'm burning too much coal. I estimated 3 tons for the season, I'm not sure I will get through January at the rate I'm going. I do love the stove, so far it heats the whole house and even on the nights when it dropped into the low teens.

Guys thanks for the replies. I loaded it around 10ish last night, I didn't touch it at 0445/0500 this morning, usually I have been tending at 1700 and 0500. I'm going to see what it does for the day. maybe this will be my wife's first crack at tending if it starts dying before I get home.

 
User avatar
Formulabruce
Member
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat. Feb. 02, 2013 8:02 pm
Location: in the "Shire" ( New Hamp -shire)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon Mark 1 Goldenfire
Coal Size/Type: BLASHAK Nut and Stove size
Other Heating: Blower from a gas furnace if I need to move air, no heat

Post by Formulabruce » Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 1:12 pm

They add coal once between shake downs. They have No manual damper, and No barometric Damper, Straight shot up fireplace chimney about 20 ft I would say, 6 inch Stainless liner, so a Really Good amount of draft. I seem to recall him having 3, LT pallets outside, could possibly be 1.2 Tonne pallets, either way around 3.5 Tonnes. They put a paint mark ( Paint pen from auto parts store) on ONE of the screw flanges, on each Screw ( draft), in front, to help get the screws out the same each time. I think he said his opens them MAX 2 turns. He gets a good burn and that shaker system really does a good job cleaning up the burner box.
Good luck!!

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 3:03 pm

dumper wrote:I've been burning coal a whole 3 weeks. I have been keeping the fire going 24-7 for 2-1/2 of the 3 weeks once I got some advice on poking and ash shake down. I stopped dumping the coals. I have another question, from searching it seems as though coal quality is the number one answer, however what else causes the difference in ash I am seeing? Sometimes I am seeing very fine white dust type ash, some times a mix of dust, large chunks, small chunks, and pebble size black unburnt coal. Is the goal to get all dust? What's the trick to that? Am I shaking too frequently for the amount I am burning? I am shaking ~12hrs, burning somewhere around 50 to 75ish lbs over a 24hr period. Stove temp is mostly at 3-350, when it drops below 20 I crank it up a bit, 4-500 depending on the house temp. Although I haven't run it at 4-500 for more than an hour; so mostly 3-350 so far. Should I be letting it go longer?
===================================================================================================

About your ash etc.

What you are referring to is bottom ash.
This is the portion of larger particles/clinkers that
remain after the coal is burned.

The fly ash is just that. The very fine coal ash that burns
nearly completely leaving a very low/no iron slag(red slag)
clinker content in the bottom ash portion.

 
dumper
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu. Nov. 13, 2014 10:38 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Baker Fireside Insert
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut
Other Heating: Oil

Post by dumper » Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 10:30 pm

Formulabruce wrote:They add coal once between shake downs. They have No manual damper, and No barometric Damper, Straight shot up fireplace chimney about 20 ft I would say, 6 inch Stainless liner, so a Really Good amount of draft. I seem to recall him having 3, LT pallets outside, could possibly be 1.2 Tonne pallets, either way around 3.5 Tonnes. They put a paint mark ( Paint pen from auto parts store) on ONE of the screw flanges, on each Screw ( draft), in front, to help get the screws out the same each time. I think he said his opens them MAX 2 turns. He gets a good burn and that shaker system really does a good job cleaning up the burner box.
Good luck!!
Thanks for the details. I have pretty much the same set up. Mine will run about 325, door temp hinge side on a 1/4 turn open on both ash door knobs, 2 turns on the main door knobs. I'm shaking and adding coal every 12 with some poking. I'm filling to the steel hooks that hold the fire brick on the outside with a mound in the center that almost touches the inside roof. I'll give the double shake single fill a shot and see hat happens. I just feel like I'm blowing thru coal too fast and it's not even cold out yet.

BTW I tried burning 2200 last night to 1645; total fail, pretty much came home to a firebox full of ash and some red coals under neath. Temp was 200-250. It took me a while to clean it up, add coal/wood to get her going again

 
dumper
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu. Nov. 13, 2014 10:38 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Baker Fireside Insert
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut
Other Heating: Oil

Post by dumper » Wed. Dec. 10, 2014 10:33 pm

About your ash etc.

What you are referring to is bottom ash.
This is the portion of larger particles/clinkers that
remain after the coal is burned.

The fly ash is just that. The very fine coal ash that burns
nearly completely leaving a very low/no iron slag(red slag)
clinker content in the bottom ash portion.[/quote]

Ahhh, that's what clinkers look like...I thought they were foreign material as it was explained to me. That makes more sense, thanks for clearing that up.

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Dec. 11, 2014 7:31 am

Clinkers can be of different hardness. Usually, the longer they get to melt and fuse together the harder they become.

Here's two pix. The first is a "white ash coal" clinker starting to form. You can see it has some iron in it that helps fuse it together. It was strong enough to sit up on top of the grates and even with vigorous shaking, not shake apart to fall through. Get enough of them and eventually the stove is not putting out as much heat because the bottom of the firebox has less, and less fuel to burn. Clinker buildup in the bottom of the firebox is one of the reasons why after a few days of lighting a stove, it is putting out less heat then it did at start up.

With some designs of grates, this type clinker can be ground up to fall through the grate and be removed with the ashes. Then the stove keeps putting out the heat it should.

The second picture is a clinker that formed with Kimmel's red ash coal in 24 hours. It was way too hard for the triangular grates to break up. It jammer them open, dropping a lot of unburned coal. Forcing cast iron grates to break it could possibly break the grates because the grates are weaker at high temps. Luckily, I was able to shake it loose with the next ash shaking.
Paul

Attachments

DSCN3218.JPG
.JPG | 223.6KB | DSCN3218.JPG
DSCN5706.JPG
.JPG | 222.5KB | DSCN5706.JPG


Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”