Jib it or auger it?

Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:31 am

I’d like to have some ideas from all the experienced people that I’ve learned a lot from in my short time with this forum. Here’s my set up which will help explain what I need to do in some way.

I’m running my hand fed with pea coal. The stove is located on the second floor over the garage that’s half of my daylight basement. I’m holding 2,500 lb in a homemade utility trailer/ coal bin that’s spotted outside the garage man-door. With 2 ft. sides, two ton wouldn’t be a problem. I fill the cart from the pickup as needed, then fill 5 gallon buckets and carry them thru the garage, up the steps, to the stove and vies a versa with the ash. Some go to the gym, but I like this cheap workout and accomplish something too. I’m committed to it and have been for the past six years at 3 ton a year, handled twice, plus about 1,000 Lb in ash.

That said I’d like to place a bin under my deck, which a delivery/scissor truck should reach. I’ve thought of using a jib crane attached to the house with a 500 lb hoist I own to lift the buckets I’d fill, then trolley them to the stove thru the kitchen. This only solves the carry up routine – still shoveling a lot. Is there an affordable/reliable auger to lift the coal a vertical 10’ where I'd bucket it on the deck? Got any good ideas to chew through? Thanks.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Dallas On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:58 am

Stove on the first level and pipe the "heat' to the second level. :?:
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:01 am

Check your local farm equipment store or surplus shops. Check Criagslist for you area too.
You should be able to find something that might work.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon


Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Coal Jockey On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:22 am

A bucket elevator is what most folks would use to elevate aggregate-like material (grain, gravel, crushed ore, coal, cornflakes, etc). Vertical augers are a pain (We used to have one running from a rollermill up to a feed mixer) and are best avoided for something like coal. Once you've twisted off several feet of flighting and jammed it up it really sucks.
How about a plain old "dumb waiter" style hoist lifted by a simple winch?
Coal Jockey
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Newmac
Stove/Furnace Model: GAO

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:53 pm

Dallas wrote:Stove on the first level and pipe the "heat' to the second level. :?:


Dallas,I've been thinking about that for the near future. House is set up with ductwork. Will need to plan space as the basement might need to be finished for my parent's space soon. I'd need a larger unit and the wife would protest big-time for lack of radiant heat if the room unit wasn't running. I can deal with that, though :roll:

Coal Jockey wrote:A bucket elevator is what most folks would use to elevate aggregate-like material \.../How about a plain old "dumb waiter" style hoist lifted by a simple winch?


I like the elevator idea but will need to configure the set up from what I've been planing. Used them when I was a kid on the dairy farm. What are some common lengths and lifts? I've thought of the dumbwaiter/hoist idea using my 500 capacity Lb hoist. There's a space behind the steps and between the house that I thought of using. That idea morphed into the jib crane idea because it would allow me to swing the hoisted platform onto a dolly positioned on the deck. Less lifting - had one shoulder rebuilt four years ago :| Downside; still shoveling into the buckets ... unless I build the bin high enough to fit buckets under a knife type valve. Has anyone seen a design for a knife valve or bin designed like that?

I'll need to go wander around the local TSC after work next week. Seeing stuff gets the ideas moving, but the suggestions everyone are offering are better at making more options for the solution :!:
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:15 pm

I see something in the "Want ad digest .com " that would work. Some kind of vacumn system for moving corn. I don't know what size coal you're burning but this might work for the smaller stuff. :) Scott
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Coal Jockey On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:41 am

I doubt those "sucker blower" units would move coal. If you've ever tried using one you would know how wimpy they are. It would have to be massive to work - 300 hp motor etc.

There all kinds of things one might rig up to move the coal. It all depends on how far you want to go and what aesthetic look you want. Too much machinery gets to start looking like a workshop or factory instead of a house... :?
Coal Jockey
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Newmac
Stove/Furnace Model: GAO

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:25 pm

Coal Jockey points out the one constant: the aesthetics interpreter. The Wife. When I showed her my jib crane idea, she asked if it would come down in the spring because "it looked too industrial". My dad was in industrial maintenance/electrical and I have his "save everything & DIY" gene.:D That's were the 500 Lb capacity hoist came from, rewound to 120V from 440V.

I'm still looking into the knife valve bin idea. There's a bank sloping toward and ending where I might place my "vertical lifting device". It drops 4' in 12'. Does anyone know what slope pea coal will flow at?

Coal Jockey said vertical augers are not reliable and I can visualize why. What angle and what diameter tube would it work at, anybody know :?: I've moved gains with augers, cob corn with bucket elevators and blew silage, but the set up picture has faded. That was 34 years ago.

Thanks everyone for the good ideas. Please keep them coming!
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Coal Jockey On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:12 pm

Pea coal might auger. I was thinking in my head a larger size. Whatever auger you get make sure it is very heavy built as in center shaft, flighting, bearings, pulleys, motor mount etc. To figure out what size of motor you need, just take the size of auger - diameter and length - and buy a pieve of plastic sewer pipe, fill it with coal right full, and then weigh it. Whatever motor/pulley combination you get must have the guts to move that dead weight from a dead start full load. I would imagine a 3 hp motor might do (like a silo unloader or stable cleaner motor). Gear it really slow (big pulley on auger, small pulley on motor) and have some sort of shut off valve on the bottom so you can stop the flow of coal into the auger if it starts bogging down or jamming up. There must also be a clean out hatch on the bottom to let you empty it AFTER you plug it up :roll: You might also consider spraying the coal with waste oil as you chute it into the bin to help it squirm its way up the auger. All totaled you're probably looking at a few thousand bucks for good stuff...makes a 5 gallon pail or a washtub look attractive... :shock:
Coal Jockey
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Newmac
Stove/Furnace Model: GAO

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:40 pm

I wonder how something like this would work for rice coal ?

http://www.exair.com/Cultures/en-US/Pri ... s+Home.htm
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:12 am

How com you don't put a grain auger type of thing on the elevated spot onto your deck.Going down 4' to go up 8-9'. Would't it work better just going up 4-5' over the 12' distance.? :) Scott
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Coal Jockey On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:18 pm

Flyer5 wrote:I wonder how something like this would work for rice coal ?

http://www.exair.com/Cultures/en-US/Pri ... s+Home.htm


Mickey Mouse, and likely pricey. Max "heavy duty" model will only move 500 lbs of rock salt an hour or so - that is like rowing to China with a toothpick...
Coal Jockey
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Newmac
Stove/Furnace Model: GAO

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:02 pm

stokerscot wrote:How com you don't put a grain auger type of thing on the elevated spot onto your deck.Going down 4' to go up 8-9'. Would't it work better just going up 4-5' over the 12' distance.? :) Scott


Good point. It flashed through my mind and then I came back to the knife valve idea. I just checked craigslist / ebay and nothing with in a couple of hours drive. I'd probably need 12' min. ... if I can find one.

Coal Jockey wrote:probably looking at a few thousand bucks for good stuff...makes a 5 gallon pail or a washtub look attractive...


Eee-ha! And the el chepo home made jib looks better with a bin fitted with a knife valve does too. But the auger would be so much neater and easier if it wasn't more problems than it's wort. I do have a 2 hp dual cap. start 220V sitting around. Hate to say it but i scrapped a 10:1 gear reduction about 9 years ago :x Should have listened to my dad's gene :!: But, there's all that Gravely tractor stuff I have .... hmmmm
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: LoschStoker On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:55 pm

LoschStoker
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: (New) Warm Morning 400A
Other Heating: Yukon Polar-Eagle II Multi Furnace
Stove/Furnace Make: Losch 350 130k BTU's
Stove/Furnace Model: DS Stoves 1500WH Short Lid

Re: Jib it or auger it?

PostBy: Matthaus On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:58 pm

Yes, that flexifeed is what my Eshland is fed by, the previous owner used it to fill the hopper, seemed to work great. I have yet to take delivery but will let you know just how well it works when I do. :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite