Getting Fustrated

WNY · Post by **WNY** » Wed. Dec. 17, 2014 7:56 pm

If it's calling for heat thru the thermostat, the stoker/feeder should STAY ON constantly. until the Temperature reaches the Setpoint on thermostat.

Check your thermostat connections/wires, to the box on the stove. make sure when you turn it up, you here the stove CLICK and the STOKER/FEEDER should come on and stay on. If it not, something is not hooked up correctly or not working correctly.

if the stoker/feeder is just running for a minute or two and then stops, I think it just might be on the TIMER Box for Idle, what are your pin settings, usually the keystoker runs 3-4 pins every 10 mins.

This has nothing to do with the Convection (Heat) fan to the house, thats another question, where is the temp. switch located, if it's in the air flow, it's cooling down too fast and thats why it's not running very long, but you don't have any heat coming out of the stove to keep it running.

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Wed. Dec. 17, 2014 9:24 pm

What is the size of the clay liner in the chimney?

How tall is the chimney?

Do you have a chimny cap?

Did you use to burn a lot of firewood in this chimney?

Does the ash have any partially burnt coal mixed in with it?

You should Not need the combustion fan shutter much over half open.

Help us to help you.

ElCamMan515 · Post by **ElCamMan515** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 7:25 am

Albany,

How do you have the convection fan wired? I had a similar issue when I first installed my K-Lite, and lets admit it, the owners manual does not do a good job explaining where to wire everything up.

You should have the convection fan wires (purple and white) hooked into the box to the right of the fan when looking at the back of the stove, the wires (black and white you will splice into run to the high/low on/off fan switch on the stove; this controls the convection fan itself.

If everything is wired correctly; I would make sure the stoker/feeding unit is working correctly and that it is moving back and forth smoothly.

I can take pics of my K-lite if you want when I get home from work.

Tim

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 8:24 am

First you need to know your chimney is as good as it can be...then we can move on to the next item.

You will/should notice manometer reading changes as you change comb. fan shutter opening amount.
More comb. fan air = lower mano. reading
Less comb. fan air = higher mano. reading

The goal is to set comb. fan shutter to give a over fire reading always to be slightly less than stack's natural draft reading.
This assures we are not pressureizing the fire box...which can push out unwanted CO into the house.
Never want more air added than the chimney can draft away.

In the case of fan supplied combustion air...More is not Better

Rick 386 · Post by **Rick 386** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 8:54 am

I said it yesterday and I'll say it again.

In his pic of a full burn, THE FLAMES ARE NOT HIGH ENOUGH !!!!!!!!! THEY SHOULD BE ABOUT 12" TALL
In fact at full burn, I think there should be more burning coal on the grate.

His stove is not running properly. It is short cycling on the call for heat. It is not running long enough to heat it up. And with an increased full burn time, it would allow more coal to be burning on the grate.

His mano readings appear to be from an idling fire which is what his stove is doing right now by not running long enough. And mano of -.02 would be fine for an idling stove. And if the stove would run longer, it would heat the chimney more thereby increasing the draft.

I still suspect a problem with the combustion blower or the amount of combustion air being sent to the grate.

Albany, is there any way for you to check the combustion blower ??? The motor may be binding, it may need oil to the bearings, there may be an accumulation of crud on the squirrel cage, etc. Perhaps you can remove the fan and check if there is an increase in fan speed off the stove vs. on the stove.

Rick

AlbanyTurf · Post by **AlbanyTurf** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 9:23 am

McGiever wrote:What is the size of the clay liner in the chimney?

How tall is the chimney?

Do you have a chimny cap?

Did you use to burn a lot of firewood in this chimney?

Does the ash have any partially burnt coal mixed in with it?

You should Not need the combustion fan shutter much over half open.

Help us to help you.

Liner is 6"x6", the height of the chimney from my point of connection is roughly 16-18', it has no cap and I don't believe it has ever had wood burned in it. Has been the flue for the oil burner since 1993, at least. I can take a pic of my ash bucket when I get home from work.

Thanks

AlbanyTurf · Post by **AlbanyTurf** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 9:26 am

McGiever wrote:First you need to know your chimney is as good as it can be...then we can move on to the next item.

You will/should notice manometer reading changes as you change comb. fan shutter opening amount.
More comb. fan air = lower mano. reading
Less comb. fan air = higher mano. reading

The goal is to set comb. fan shutter to give a over fire reading always to be slightly less than stack's natural draft reading.
This assures we are not pressureizing the fire box...which can push out unwanted CO into the house.
Never want more air added than the chimney can draft away.

In the case of fan supplied combustion air...More is not Better

Left stove running as is last night and noticed the Mano reading was .03 when I woke up with the combustion fan open all the way. And the baro basically shut closed. House temp still only 63-64

AlbanyTurf · Post by **AlbanyTurf** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 9:27 am

Rick 386 wrote:I said it yesterday and I'll say it again.

In his pic of a full burn, THE FLAMES ARE NOT HIGH ENOUGH !!!!!!!!! THEY SHOULD BE ABOUT 12" TALL
In fact at full burn, I think there should be more burning coal on the grate.

His stove is not running properly. It is short cycling on the call for heat. It is not running long enough to heat it up. And with an increased full burn time, it would allow more coal to be burning on the grate.

His mano readings appear to be from an idling fire which is what his stove is doing right now by not running long enough. And mano of -.02 would be fine for an idling stove. And if the stove would run longer, it would heat the chimney more thereby increasing the draft.

I still suspect a problem with the combustion blower or the amount of combustion air being sent to the grate.

Albany, is there any way for you to check the combustion blower ??? The motor may be binding, it may need oil to the bearings, there may be an accumulation of crud on the squirrel cage, etc. Perhaps you can remove the fan and check if there is an increase in fan speed off the stove vs. on the stove.

Rick

I can remove it I belive its just two screws or bolts. Will I have to remove all the coal in the hopper? Does that need to be cemented back in?

titleist1 · Post by **titleist1** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 9:35 am

Anybody else concerned about his manometer reading in his picture above?

He has the tubing on the low port like we usually recommend but his reading is to the left of 0 on the short side of the scale.

My pic is what I am used to seeing on here which is the tubing on the low port and the reading is to the right of the 0 on the long side of the scale.

If this does indeed indicate a pressurized firebox wouldn't that explain the minimal combustion air coming up through the grates? My theory is the combustion fan would be fighting the pressure in the box and not gets its full air flow through the grates resulting in the smaller flame.

Thoughts on this?

blrman07 · Post by **blrman07** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 9:54 am

Assuming that the mano is hooked up correctly and he is actually reading a positive number, he will not get a correct burn and will have CO in the stove space if the stove is sealed tight.

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 10:31 am

I don't disagree that more fan makes for taller flames, in theroy. But there are other issues here unsolved yet.
I think this is a new install with a new unit just this season.

Since OP has stated he already has shutter open as far as obstructions allow , it is not possible to increase air anyway, unless this fan is dirty or defective.

Bottom line...cannot just add more combustion air than the chimney is able to remove...fire box will go from negative draft to positive and that makes for CO being pushed out through hopper opening and any other crack, gap or loose joint.

An additional mano reading of the stack above the stove compared with the reported over fire (door) reading would tell much more of what is going on with this chimney.

Rick 386 · Post by **Rick 386** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 1:21 pm

Wasn't there an issue a few years ago where the combustion blowers were running backwards on some stoves ??????

Rick

titleist1 · Post by **titleist1** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 2:30 pm

I did a search looking for similar low flame / heat issues and in addition to a combustion fan issue coming up, coal with a lot of fines seemed to come up a time or two as the cause.

What size / brand coal are you using, bagged or bulk, wet, damp or dry when it goes in the hopper?

I'd also pull the combustion fan and power it up and look at the fan blades to make sure they are spinning the correct way to throw the air through the outlet side.

Post by **Lightning** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 2:51 pm

So nobody has asked where the thermostat is located.. Could a warm air run be blowing on it making it think the call is being satisfied??

Post by **Rob R.** » Thu. Dec. 18, 2014 4:28 pm

Have you checked the voltage going to combustion fan?