New Furnace coming soon

New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: WIcoal On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:57 am

If you do a search for; SCF-Revolution, you will only find a listing in . The manufacturer; EvenTempInc in NE will soon be delivering their new St.Croix furnace which burns wood pellets, corn, rice coal and other biomass pellets, to their dealers which presently sell their brand. Cornell University in NY will be soon testing the burning of grass pellets, in it.
Last edited by Richard S. on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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WIcoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Lamppa Kuuma wood furnace
Stove/Furnace Model: Rika Austroflamm pellet stove

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: beatle78 On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:12 pm

That forum didn't mention anything about burning coal.... :?:
beatle78
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker KA-4

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:03 pm

Hmmm...how much is a ton of Corn? With all the Bio Fuel company buying up all the corn, I would suspect the price to increase and it doesn't look like the BTU output is even close to a coal stove for the same size.

I know Pellet or corn stoves work/burn is a bit different than coal, I wouldn't think it would burn coal efficiently if setup for pellets or corn? But, I don't have one or have ever seen one work....so I can't say how well they would burn coal. Just my 2 cents.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

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Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: gambler On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:23 pm

I know Pellet or corn stoves work/burn is a bit different than coal, I wouldn't think it would burn coal efficiently if setup for pellets or corn? But, I don't have one or have ever seen one work....so I can't say how well they would burn coal.


WNY, Pellet/corn stoves operate just about the same way your stoker stoves work. Although one fuel may need more or less air than another. If you can change feed rates and the amount of combustion air you could burn all fuels in the same stove. The thing that throws a clinker into the mix (pun intended) is the amount of ash produced by each fuel and how it is handled by the stove. The coal stoker design lets the ash fall off of the grate and into the pan but a typical pellet/corn stove uses a pot instead of a grate which would keep the coal ash confined and block the air holes rather quickly. Coal produces much more ash than pellets or corn. When I burned corn the amount of ash that was produced was about 1 coal hod of ash for every ton of corn burned.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:53 pm

Gotcha, thanks. Learn something new everyday....probalby just depends on the designs.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: jpen1 On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:08 pm

That unit from st. croix will only burn biomass like corn , wheat, pellets , barley, or cherry pits. I have seen threre line up in person and they will not burn coal. They use basically what consists of a coal stove type direct venter to supply the air for combustions as do most bio mass stoves. They pull the combustion air through the material in the burn pot rather than pushing up through like on all coal stokers. However they are well made and very efficient bio mass stoves for those who are not in or close to the coal region they are definitely a unit to look at.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: gambler On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:04 pm

Most of the biomass furnaces use an under fed pot that pushes the ash up over the rim. This type of furnace may burn coal quite well. I don't know if there are any under fed stoves out there. I seem to remember hearing of one but I can't think of what company made it.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:07 pm

I think Greg (LSFarm) modified an old Iron Fireman stoker unit, underfed, I think EFM used to make a add on underfed stoker for older boilers. The technology has been around quite a while.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: jpen1 On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:28 am

Harman tried to market a coal stove based off of there p61 pellet stove called the 44 magnum. It used basically the same burn pot as the pellet burner but they pushe the air up through the coal instead of pulling it through like they do on the pellet units. They only sold it for a couple of years and I guess it was fairly problematic and difficult to get to burn right. Also the btu's from the stove were very low by today's standards.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: WIcoal On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:02 pm

WNY wrote:Hmmm...how much is a ton of Corn? With all the Bio Fuel company buying up all the corn, I would suspect the price to increase and it doesn't look like the BTU output is even close to a coal stove for the same size.

I just found a website that lists fuels and their current prices per ton. That website is
Can anyone explain why fuel pellets are listed at $182.55/T and coal at only $36.00/T, when 40# bags of rice coal cost about $6.00 and wood pellets are less?
Remember, that the Alaska Stove Co. makes the 140 Auger which burns rice coal and wood pellets.
I have been told that there is an effort underway to make Ethanol from sawdust. If they are successful and there is more profit in selling sawdust for Ethanol; then there could be a shortage of wood pellets again!
Last edited by Richard S. on Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: <removed dead link>
WIcoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Lamppa Kuuma wood furnace
Stove/Furnace Model: Rika Austroflamm pellet stove

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: WIcoal On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:23 pm

WNY wrote:
I know Pellet or corn stoves work/burn is a bit different than coal, I wouldn't think it would burn coal efficiently if setup for pellets or corn? But, I don't have one or have ever seen one work....so I can't say how well they would burn coal. Just my 2 cents.

I spoke to Fred, the midwest Rep for Alaska Stove. He told me that their coal stoves, "if setup correctly; will have half the temperature blowing out the exhaust and double the temperature heating the home, when compared to a wood pellet stove."
Does anyone have both a coal and pellet stove, or had a pellet stove before; and tell me if this is true?
Yes, I know this is the coal forum, but rice coal is over 100 miles away currently. I would like replace my non-automatic pellet stove and wood furnace; with an automatic basement furnace, this summer.
WIcoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Lamppa Kuuma wood furnace
Stove/Furnace Model: Rika Austroflamm pellet stove

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: WIcoal On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:39 pm

gambler wrote:
I know Pellet or corn stoves work/burn is a bit different than coal, I wouldn't think it would burn coal efficiently if setup for pellets or corn? When I burned corn the amount of ash that was produced was about 1 coal hod of ash for every ton of corn burned.
Can I ask why you changed from corn to coal? Are you happy you changed? Sure corn a few years ago was much cheaper, but unless you buy it in a bag, you have to clean it!

Are there any owners of the Alaska 140 Auger that can tell us about their experiences with burning wood pellets and rice coal; in it? Or, should I ask that question in a different area of this forum?
WIcoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Lamppa Kuuma wood furnace
Stove/Furnace Model: Rika Austroflamm pellet stove

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: jpen1 On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:52 pm

I had a pellet stove for five years and what the alaska rep told you is very true. Since the pellet stoves use an exhaust blower to draw combustion air through the fire the exhaust temps on a pellet stove are much higher. In my case my Alaska stoker's flue pipe runs about 180* in cold weather before the baro and about 130* after the baro damper which is what matters. Just before the connection to the chimney with the pellet stove it was around 350* or better ina similar situation. I also use a ton less coal to heat the house per winter and the house and I even have the thermostat set about 3* warmer with the coal. The reality of the situation is it depends on your location as to which form of heating is going to be more economical. Keep in mind it takes about 1.6-1.7 tons of pellets or corn to equal the btu output of 1 ton of coal. The Alaska 140 auger is the only stove/ furnace that burn both but it is a comprimise design as it is intented to burn coal as a primary design and is not nearly as efficient with the pellets. I suppose you could burn corn in the unit as well but probably only if it is mixed with some pellets. Bare in mind that switch grass pellets are something that seems to be coming of age and that unit should be able to burn them as well.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: gambler On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:37 pm

WIcoal wrote:
gambler wrote:
I know Pellet or corn stoves work/burn is a bit different than coal, I wouldn't think it would burn coal efficiently if setup for pellets or corn? When I burned corn the amount of ash that was produced was about 1 coal hod of ash for every ton of corn burned.
Can I ask why you changed from corn to coal? Are you happy you changed? Sure corn a few years ago was much cheaper, but unless you buy it in a bag, you have to clean it!

Are there any owners of the Alaska 140 Auger that can tell us about their experiences with burning wood pellets and rice coal; in it? Or, should I ask that question in a different area of this forum?


I changed from corn to coal because of the price of corn. When I was looking for a stove 5 years ago I narrowed my choices to either corn or coal and at that time corn had a slight edge over coal in price and for me corn was easier to get so I went with a corn stove. The first year I bought corn for $75 a ton and made a vac system to clean and transport the corn from the truck and into the basement bin (no shoveling required). The corn stove worked well, they are usually more like a furnace in that they have heat exchangers and do not put out radiant heat. I would usually burn about 7 tons of corn a year. With the building of all of the ethynol plants corn began to go up in price and last year I had to pay $160 a ton. Corn has a btu rating of about 6800 btu/lb (depending on the moisture content) and coal has about 13000 btu/lb rating so it does not take to many smarts to see that corn at $160 a ton is much more expensive than coal. With $160 a ton corn it was no cheaper than natural gas. That is when I started looking into buying a coal stove and I am very happy burning coal. Corn stoves are much more maintenance (cleaning ash from heat exchangers) than coal. The reason people think that corn or pellet stoves don't put out as much heat is because a typical corn/pellet stove is 50,000 btu input and with a heat exchanger the air coming off of the stove feels cooler. I have measured my corn stove exhaust in the exhaust stream and my temps were in the 275* - 300* range and my coal stove exhaust stream measurement is around the same. This year corn has continued to climb in price, it is at $180-$200 a ton. Also if you are comparing wood pellet prices remember the btu rating for wood pellets is 8200 btu/lb. The only thing that I don't like about coal is the amount of ash you have to emty daily but it does work well for anti-skid on the driveway.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: New Furnace coming soon

PostBy: boilermaker On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:36 pm

Now, that's what I like to see. Actual figures.
In terms of BTU output, coal is superior for the same weight as any wood product or corn. One simply must weigh the BTU per pound against the cost of the output in any heating application. I'm inclined to think that coal burning appliances are built better. This is only an opinion though and based on the units I've seen in the field. In terms of efficiency, well, there again you have to actually be able to test each fuel in an identical application of heat in order to conclude which is more efficient to use.
From my professional standpoint it's coal all the way. The prices for corn and wood pellets are going up and not to mention the cost of other items that were previously using byproducts of wood and corn for whatever. As supplies tend to shrink, the prices will go up. Cost effectiveness will be the paramount issue here.
I've been in this business for 30 years and I have long ago concluded that coal is the fuel to use for someone wishing to cut ties with the oil industry. It's clean, efficient, plentiful, provides jobs, and is home grown. If you're going to make the switch to alternate fuels, take my word for it, go with coal. The units on the market today do a fine job of keeping the air clean (especially anthracite burners) and providing efficient heating. Pellet stoves and corn stoves, although clean burning (although wood stoves still make creosote messes in chimneys if not properly burned) are not going to provide the heat you need without investing in the fuel to burn it. Like the guy said, if you're going to spend money on fuel why pay $160-$170/ton for corn with 6800 BTU/lb or $230/ton for wood pellets with only 8200BTU/lb. (under ideal condition I might add, and with only the highest quality hardwood pellets - not the Walmart specials) when you could spend a little more and double your output of heat.
Hurray for Coal!
boilermaker
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sime, hand fired hot water boiler
Stove/Furnace Make: Sime
Stove/Furnace Model: 6 section hand fired boiler

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