Push coals off the end of the burner

Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: Disturbed On: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:21 pm

Just started my Leisure Line Pioneer with Coal Trol for the first time since installing it and I think I am missing something but I am not sure what. I had hot coals to the end of my burner and they are falling off the end. I kept moving the Max back, 5 points at a time, which may have been too much. I was all the way down to 20 and still had coals to the very end. The room was up to temp, 70 degrees, and was still showing 99 feed rate for an hour or more, I back the temp down to 68 degrees, which seems to be more than enough for my house, and the feed rate is finally starting to fall that I have some ash on the end of the pan, feed rate is down to 69 and I have a 1.5" of ash, maybe a little more, but the room is still at 70 with the t-stat set to 68 and it has been like that for a few hours.

I know it takes coal longer to respond but why was I having hot coal to the end of the fan and running at a feed rate of 99 when the temp in the room met the t-state setting, this was like this for a few hours, up until I back the stat down to 68. What am I missing?

Very happy with coal heat, it is 32 degrees outside, my heat pump has been turned off for about 9-10 hours and it is still plenty warm in my house, actually maybe a little too warm, living room is showing 75 degrees, of course it is higher than the room the stove is in and that is where all the heat is going, just as I had planned.
Disturbed
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Coal Size/Type: rice

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:42 pm

McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:54 pm

It will do that when you first start it until the stove settles down and turn your thermostat down to room temp or just below, so it thinks it satisfied.
I would think the 6 and 40 is a good starting point for the stove. It'll overshoot at the beginning if you had it up 4-5 degrees above room temp.

It takes a while for the coal to back down, if the thermostat is set lower than room temp, the FR should start to come down. it does take a while if you had turned it up quite a bit. Let it settle out for a while 1-3 hours, and see where the FR is and the coals, you can always start added back to the max once it starts settling out. Only change the temp 1 degree at a time and let it catch up.

Make sure you have the plugs in the box correctly, and it's not feeding constantly in the wrong plug.

Just give it time to settle down, it might a few hours. hang in there.! you'll get it dialed in. How far away is the thermostat from the stove.?
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: Disturbed On: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:07 pm

Started with the Stat 3-4 degrees above room temp and didn't move it up until the room reached the set temp. Ran at 99 the whole time. Since I dropped the temp on the Stat down to 68 with the room temp at 70 the fr has started to drop. I have had this running since about 10am so I don't think I am rushing it. Also noticed the feed motor runs about 5 seconds long than the setting. Set at 40 runs 45, set at 35 runs 40, etc. Currently set at 20, it runs 25. Finally have ash and not coal at the end of burner.
Disturbed
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Coal Size/Type: rice

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:39 pm

At least you getting it figured out. To get the feed rate back down faster, turn the temp down below room temperature by 3-5 degrees for a while, it will then back off the FR, might take a while. then put it back to close to room temp.

Depending on how much temperature swing you had, it would have been at FR99 if the thermostat was not statisfied. it keeps increasing the FR until it start getting close the set temperature, but if it's quite a bit of difference and it takes a long time to get it up to temp, it will be at FR99 for a long time. Of course it may overshoot a bit, cause it keeps gaining on the feed rate and burning hotter and hotter to get the temperature up.

I only see FR99 when it's below zero outside and the stove is doing all it can to keep up. but it maintains setpoint even at FR99 for long periods of time, like overnight.

Just adjust a degree or two at a time if needed. Most of us just leave it at a set temperature.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: Disturbed On: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:52 pm

Room the stove is in has no other heat. It was about 50 degrees when I started the stove. Started with the Stat set at 53. When it reached 53 I bumped it to 56 and so on until I got to 70. Room was at 70 with the Stat set at 70 for at least an hour and the fr was still at 99 with coal falling off the end of the burner. That is when I started backing of the max. Dropped it to 35, then and hour later to 30, same down to 25 and finally 20. Probably 4-5 hours through the changes. FR never left 99. It wasn't until I dropped the Stat to 68 with the room temp at 70 that the FR started dropping. I have been working at this since mid morning.

Should I bump the FR max back up to 35-40 and let it run overnight and see what happens?
Disturbed
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Coal Size/Type: rice

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:59 pm

As long the thermostat was asking for heat, above the room temp, the stove was trying to keep up and increase the feed rate, FR99 is as high as it goes, so if you kept increasing it when it reach the setpoint, it didnt' have time to settle out and start dropping. But, you took in steps and slowly brought the temps up! Sounds like you're getting it dialed in. :)

Good luck, but i think you got it!
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:02 pm

The Coal-trol doesn't behave like traditional on-idle thermostats for coal stoves. When it reaches temperature it does not automatically kick back the FR to some lower value or back to idle. It waits until it overshoots a little bit and then backs off, eventually homing in on the exact feed rate needed to satisfy your heat demand and it will track demand throughout the day. So the behavior you were seeing as far as it holding FR 99 when it was at your 70 degree setpoint was normal.

You did the right thing by backing off the MAX when it was running FR 99 and pushing hot coals off the end. The default MIN/MAX settings work for most units from a given manufacturer, but sometimes a stoker motor runs faster than normal, or there is a slightly longer pusher arm which increases the stoker stroke. For this reason people still need to manually adjust MAX and MIN to be ideal for their particular stove.

The fact you had to back it down so much is a bit concerning. Make sure you have proper air flow from the combustion blower. Check that the gasket seal on the back of the grate is installer properly and that the grate is seated properly. That the combustion blower is mounted to the stoker assembly properly. Poor combustion air flow can hurt efficiency and result in coal taking longer to burn up (hence falling off the end at normal default settings) and, in the case of a bad gasket at the back, result in possible burn back toward the hopper.

If you have any further concerns about the control please don't hesitate to contact us via email or phone, or call your stove dealer or Leisure Line for assistance.
pvolcko
 

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: Disturbed On: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:20 am

OK here is where I am at, unit ran all day yesterday, I made no changes to anything other than lower the temp a few degrees (70 down to 68) because it was getting too hot in the house, 68 seems to be the spot we want to be. This morning after running all night this is what the coal bed looked like.


Min is set at 6, max is set at 30, FR was 57 when this picture was taken, temp was 68, setting is at 68.

I have hot coals all but at the end of the burner and I am only running at 57%, if the rate goes much higher I will be pushing hot coal into the ash pan again. The fire never goes any further up the burner than where it is at now. Still seems as if a max of 30 is too high. Hoping someone can help me here, I burned about 80 lbs of coal in 24hours yesterday, seems like that is more than I should be burning but really have no idea. Any input?
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Disturbed
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Coal Size/Type: rice

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:43 am

I think that is looking fine. Remember that you started with a room at 50*.

It takes a while for all the walls to heat up and act as a heat sink. 80 lbs doesn't sound that too far off from where you started.

I bet by the end of the day, it will have settled down.

You are doing good by not having burning coals fall off the grate. Usual max burn is to have 1/2 - 1" of ash at the end of the grate. As this stove finally settles down, then you might have to increase the feed rate back towards 40-45.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: Disturbed On: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:06 pm

Rick 386 wrote:I think that is looking fine. Remember that you started with a room at 50*.

It takes a while for all the walls to heat up and act as a heat sink. 80 lbs doesn't sound that too far off from where you started.

I bet by the end of the day, it will have settled down.

You are doing good by not having burning coals fall off the grate. Usual max burn is to have 1/2 - 1" of ash at the end of the grate. As this stove finally settles down, then you might have to increase the feed rate back towards 40-45.




Rick


I understand that the room was at 50 but that was 2 days ago. I will let it where it stands and give it a few more days to see what happens. I am wondering if it has anything to do with the t-stat placement. The stove is in an entry way and every time someone goes outside cold air comes rushing in. I have 5 year old twins and lets just say they are not as good about closing the door quickly as the should be, maybe the temp swing is causing my issues. I am not concerned with the temp in the room where the stove is, should i considering moving the t-stat into the rooms I am heating and out of the entry way?
Disturbed
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Coal Size/Type: rice

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:27 pm

Yep,

I would definitely move the thermostat if it is susceptible to drafts or cool moving air at certain times.

Think of it this way : A cool breeze comes through telling the thermostat that the room had cooled by 5*. Thermostat sends signal to stove to get that temp back up 5*. Stove starts to ramp back up. But remember coal takes some time to heat up. By the time the thermostat is satisfied, the stove is now really cranking out some heat. And then you get into a typical overshoot. So now the stove cuts back into an almost idle setting. By the time it needs to put out some more heat, the stove has cooled down a whole bunch. So it ramps back up again and we start the whole scene all over again.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:19 pm

I think Coal trol had a longer cable option to get sensor further away.???
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: Ed.A On: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:23 pm

Not sure what size house your heating so the amount your burning can't really be calculated yet.

My Channing III uses on average 40lbs per 24hr cycle to heat roughly 1600sq ft. The stoves are comparable in BTU output so you can get good idea from there.

Keep in mind, the Coal-trol is supposed to make your heating more efficient, so take that into account.
Ed.A
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III/ '94 Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Push coals off the end of the burner

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:23 am

I think Coal trol had a longer cable option to get sensor further away.???


It's standard cat 5e/cat 6 cable. My stoves (Poconos/AK110/AK180) have always been in the basement and the thermostat on the main floor level of the house. 6 winters of running that way and I would not do it any other way. Limit on length - 330'. :D
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22