Short Burns, Fire Going out

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:44 pm

LsFarm wrote:HI MP, glad to be helping [hopefully helping :D ]
OK, so the new Mark II's don't have an air spinner knob on the loading door?? I thought they did. Maybe I'm confused with the older ones or the SF 150/SF250 models.

That's correct, only those models have the air spinner on the loading doors.

It sounds like it could be your coal... can you buy a few baggs of Blaschak or some coal from a different source?? And give the different coal a try.. If coal has a real high ash content, it will require more frequent grate-shaking to keep the air passageways clear... A few years ago I burnt Reading nut and Stove mixed in my big boiler. The coal had a lot of ash content.. I had lots of hard crunchy pieces of ash that looked just like the piece of coal it used to be.. you could break each piece apart, but it was prety hard, and the piece had a black center.. appeared to be partially burnt..

That's EXACTLY what I am seeing with this coal! I just shook the ashes once forward and back - got some ash and a couple little red coals. Shake more? It has been 10 hours.

I burnt a few bags of Blaschak nut coal, and it burnt allmost completely to a fine powder ash,, it was MUCH easier to shake down and keep the air flowing through the fire. There are lots of good mines and breakers selling very good bulk coal, but only a few with bagged coal available...reading and Blaschak that I know of.

Most places, if not all around us that I have called sell Reading Coal.

You may have better luck with Pea size coal as well, it will definitely burn longer, with usually a little less heat output.

OK, I can surely give that a try and I'll also see where I can get the Blaschak Coal! My temp at the top of the stove just went up to 490 in about 35 minutes with me opening the spinner 1/2 turn from 3/4 to 1 1/2 turns open.
ALSO: How much of this should be shook down and when? I know I should wait until for 12 hours, (did that last night), but maybe this needs to be shook down more, even though I'm getting a few red coals, it may need more shaking at the 12 hour reload?

MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:51 pm

For accurate comparisons I suggest moving the thermometer to the side of the stove. The top is a double layer with air space in between, and the temp can vary considerably depending on whether the stove blower is turned on or not. On my Mark 1 the hottest spot seems to be the middle of the side a little above the top of the firebrick. But anywhere on the side, as long as it's above the firebrick and in front of the baffle, should be OK as long as you stay with one spot for consistency.

As far as your burning troubles are concerned, I can't add anything to what others have said, except to ask if you have a baro damper to avoid putting too much heat up the chimney blowtorch style?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:59 pm

I'll second the Blaschak bagged coal and a properly adjusted baro damper. I use 'The Santa' as my 'control' whenever I start experimenting! Bad or just different coal will drive me crazy if I made some other change also. Eliminate as many variables as possible and you will soon have the stove purring.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

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Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:03 pm

I keep my thermo on the left side 3" in from the front and 3" down from the top. The top of the stove is not reading the inside temps properly. A high draft situation will pull extra air through the unregulated 'air-wash' on the glass.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:04 pm

Ah, I thought the same thing, that the top is a double layer. It is not. There are two channels running out to the front from the back.
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:07 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:I keep my thermo on the left side 3" in from the front and 3" down from the top. The top of the stove is not reading the inside temps properly. A high draft situation will pull extra air through the unregulated 'air-wash' on the glass.


Excellent point! I'll move that thing to the side.
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:15 pm

MountainPreacher wrote:
CapeCoaler wrote:I keep my thermo on the left side 3" in from the front and 3" down from the top. The top of the stove is not reading the inside temps properly. A high draft situation will pull extra air through the unregulated 'air-wash' on the glass.


Excellent point! I'll move that thing to the side.


Ok, Temps lower on the side 3" in and 3" down.
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:24 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:I'll second the Blaschak bagged coal and a properly adjusted baro damper. I use 'The Santa' as my 'control' whenever I start experimenting! Bad or just different coal will drive me crazy if I made some other change also. Eliminate as many variables as possible and you will soon have the stove purring.


Thank you! I'm trying to find out where to get the Blaschak Coal.
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:32 pm

I know the Mark II is good when it settles in at 325. When I see it drop to 225 I open the ash door for 5 minutes put 2 shovels of fresh coal on leave the door open another 5 then shake a bit and get it back to at least 350 before topping off. Adding too much coal to a coldish fire, 125, will almost snuff it out.
Someone else mentioned they called Blaschak and they told them where there were retailers in their area.

http://www.blaschakcoal.com/html/coinfo.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:25 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:I know the Mark II is good when it settles in at 325. When I see it drop to 225 I open the ash door for 5 minutes put 2 shovels of fresh coal on leave the door open another 5 then shake a bit and get it back to at least 350 before topping off. Adding too much coal to a coldish fire, 125, will almost snuff it out.
Someone else mentioned they called Blaschak and they told them where there were retailers in their area.

http://www.blaschakcoal.com/html/coinfo.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Wow, that's cooler than what I usually run mine to heat our house during the day. If I see that at night, no problem. Five mins. OK, I'm doing that pretty much the same. I do believe that I have had the Baro set to open way too early which is leading to poor draft on the fire. I think so! All day it has been set so it would take a much stronger draft to open it and Tada! The fire has been a nice steady one between 400-500 and the bed has gradually gone down by a good 4 inches or more at this point. The temp now is 450 and the air spinner is open 1 1/4. So we'll see what happens by morning now :roll:
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:28 pm

And thank you for the link to Blaschak Coal! I've sent them an e and hopefully will hear from them :)
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:02 pm

rberq wrote:Not to be too anal here, BUT ... the Harman Mark series DOES have non-adjustable air intakes on the loading door, in the form of narrow slots at the top and bottom of the glass. I think the way it works is that the glass has thin gaskets at the sides, but not at top and bottom, so the spaces where top and bottom gaskets would be result in a narrow gap that lets in a controlled amount of air. Unfortunately (IMHO) it's never the RiGHT amount of air -- too little with a new load of coal, too much with a mature fire.

All of which is irrelevant to MountainPreacher's problem....


The lack of gasket material in the top and bottom of the door glass allows a small amount of fresh air into the stove to "wash" the door glass. This is a very small amount of air and I really don't think it has much effect on the operation of the stove.
Proper draft regulation and decent coal make all the difference.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:04 am

Well gentlemen, I am now 12+ hours with this load of coal that was started from the grates up. Here's one main thing I have done different - I set the baro heavier than it has been to make sure it had a strong draft all day. The draft had been opening, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch at the bottom - seemingly not much, but evidently it was cooling off the chimney? The coal bed continues to burn nicely and it continues to settle down telling me that the coal underneath is burning down and turning to ash - uh, hopefully!
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:20 am

MountainPreacher wrote:Well gentlemen, I am now 12+ hours with this load of coal that was started from the grates up. Here's one main thing I have done different - I set the baro heavier than it has been to make sure it had a strong draft all day. The draft had been opening, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch at the bottom - seemingly not much, but evidently it was cooling off the chimney? The coal bed continues to burn nicely and it continues to settle down telling me that the coal underneath is burning down and turning to ash - uh, hopefully!


Great!! Just make sure you fill the stove to the top of the firebrick when you add coal & you have it made.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Short Burns, Fire Going out

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:25 am

OK, another great burn!

Thank you all for your help! :D
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

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