The Problem With Republicans

Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:03 am

I thought I was going to ignor this thread... Damn..

Richard, you are talking apples and oranges... GW did not ever have his military calling him saying 'we have him, just give us a yes and Bin Ladin is dead'... and Billy wanted to watch football... Great C&C... Worthless POS.

What would Billy have done in GW's shoes?? If 9/11 happened on his watch???? Had a poll taken to see what was popular?? That's the way he ran his presidency.

And I also don't buy blaming GW for the mess Clinton made of the FBI, CIA and the rest of the military, Billy had the info well before GW. Billy didn't do anything to try to get the FBI and the CIA to talk to each other and compare notes.. after being in office for 8 years, he should have had a MUCH better idea of what was going on than GW would in his first year in office, trying to get a handle on his administration.. Then came 9/11, which has defined GW's presidency.

and Richard, what would you have done as president?? try to push through something like Homeland security?? do you think the FBI or CIA actually had a list that looked like the list of plane hijackers after 9'/11?? I don't think so, this is more monday morning quarterbacking... I don't buy it. I worked in the industry for decades, there was never a clue that a plane would be hijacked and flown by the hijackers.. not a clue.

You can't blame the C&C when he has just taken the helm and discovers the mess the leaving chief made of the whole ship.. Personally I think GW did an overall good job for the first years after 9/11, I certainly would not describe his actions as incompetance....'

One area where GW messed up, in my field: the airlines.. He should have asked for a volunteer air marshal 'army'.. all the retired police, firemen, Military, MPs, etc. all with a background in civil service and safety, These volunteers could have been given a two day course and put into every domestic airline flight... GW could have announced within a month that every american airline domestic flight had at least one if not two armed federal marshals on board. The public was looking for safety,, my company JetBlue had every one of our aircraft equiped with an armored cockpit door within 30 days after 9/11. It had four 1/2" titanium deadbolts to lock the door from the cockpit side, and a 1/2" layer of Kevlar board.. a 12 at point blank could not get through the door, and a fire ax could not break through the hinges and deadbolts This brought customers back into the skies on jetblue way ahead of the other airlines. Customers were looking for security, some indication that everything was not the same as before 9/11.

What is truely sad is that the democrats couldn't come up with a better canidate.. what choices do we have here?? nothing good in my book.. she's downright scary, and I don't think Obama gives anybody much hope that he has a clue about what to do as president... And the election could just about be handed to a democrat with decent credentials.. so where are they??? Nobody in the democratic party want the job except Billary?

Ok, time for bed, arguing or 'discussing' with '"bullheaded liberal democrats" is tiring. As is arguing with "bullheaded conservative Republicans" of which I am proud to be. Most of the time.

Greg L
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: acesover On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:14 am

Ls said,
What is truely sad is that the democrats couldn't come up with a better canidate.. what choices do we have here??
Ls.... I agree I'm a Democrat voiting Republican.... or ? Nater
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:27 am

coalkirk wrote:
The attachment obama osama.jpg is no longer available


Don't worry, we're about to be saved. :lol: Yea, that's obama!



I don't think so Coalkirk....Look again
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:55 am

[quote="LsFarm"]I thought I was going to ignor this thread... Damn..


And I also don't buy blaming GW for the mess Clinton made of the FBI, CIA and the rest of the military....





Funny....Historicaly our government usually does blame the commanders on duty at the time. Below is a short segment on what happened to the Army & Navy commanders in charge of Pearl Harbor at the time of the attack. GW Bush had much more access to actionable intelligence to stop the 9/11 attack than Kimmell & Short (Army & Navy commanders) did to stop the Japanese attack of 12/7/1941. (The blame didn't fall on Kimmell & Short's predecessors)

Exerpt:

" Like the Warren commission headed by a Supreme Court justice on a different topic more than twenty years later, the Roberts Commission appeared to have identified its culprits in advance and gerrymandered its inquiries to make the suspects appear guilty. The scapegoats were Kimmel and Short, who were both publicly crucified, forced to retire, and denied the open hearings they desired."

Another Example:
Captain Charles B. McVay, III, USN, Commanding Officer of USS Indianapolis (CA-35) which was sunk by Japanese submarine I-58 on 30 July 1045 near the Philippines was court martialed for losing his ship in the Pacific, not his predecessor.



It just amazes me how GW Bush has managed to escape responsability for anything his entire life! (he is never to blame for anything....It's always the other guy) Maybe a few good spankings when he was a child would have saved this country alot of grief!

Don't have time to respond to the rest odf your arguments right now.
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: coalkirk On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:43 am

Ok, that's funny! Nice job on the photo shop Devil.
The 911 attacks were years in the planning, almost exclusively on Clinton's watch. And Osama was offered to us on a silver platter by the Somalis and Clinton chose not to act. While in hind sight, that was a poor choice, I can understand it in a pre-911 environment. That was also pre USS Cole attack.
What the Democrats seem to forget or refuse to acknolwedge is that we are in a fight for our lives against radical islam. It's much bigger than Osama. The 911 attacks were dramtic and wildly sucessfull beyond their wildest dreams. If you look at their history, they execute, study, learn and ramp up. I don't have any magical vision or secret intelligence info but you better believe what they are planning next will be bigger and more deadly. These are dedicated, patient advisaries. I'd expect the next attack to be in multiple cities and involve chemical, biological or radiological weapons.
I can almost hear Devils keyboard clacking in response. He'll agree and say we should go to Afganistan instead of Iraq. And I agree we should dedicate more resources there also. But we've got Al Queada coming to us in Iraq and from the info you don't hear from the "mainstream press", we're kicking their ass right now. I'd rather keep their resources busy in Iraq. Afganistan is a very inhospitable place in terms of it's terrain and it lends itself more to the bad guys then our military. I still say that no matter who gets elected, we are not leaving Iraq. There may be some token reductions but we are there to stay for the forseeble future.
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:01 am

coalkirk wrote:Ok, that's funny! Nice job on the photo shop Devil.
The 911 attacks were years in the planning, almost exclusively on Clinton's watch. And Osama was offered to us on a silver platter by the Somalis and Clinton chose not to act. While in hind sight, that was a poor choice, I can understand it in a pre-911 environment. That was also pre USS Cole attack.
What the Democrats seem to forget or refuse to acknolwedge is that we are in a fight for our lives against radical islam. It's much bigger than Osama. The 911 attacks were dramtic and wildly sucessfull beyond their wildest dreams. If you look at their history, they execute, study, learn and ramp up. I don't have any magical vision or secret intelligence info but you better believe what they are planning next will be bigger and more deadly. These are dedicated, patient advisaries. I'd expect the next attack to be in multiple cities and involve chemical, biological or radiological weapons.
I can almost hear Devils keyboard clacking in response. He'll agree and say we should go to Afganistan instead of Iraq. And I agree we should dedicate more resources there also. But we've got Al Queada coming to us in Iraq and from the info you don't hear from the "mainstream press", we're kicking their ass right now. I'd rather keep their resources busy in Iraq. Afganistan is a very inhospitable place in terms of it's terrain and it lends itself more to the bad guys then our military. I still say that no matter who gets elected, we are not leaving Iraq. There may be some token reductions but we are there to stay for the forseeble future.



Wow....You have great hearing to have heard my keyboard clicking & you are right as to my response about our fight is in Afganistan. I would argue that this statement ..."But we've got Al Queada coming to us in Iraq and from the info you don't hear from the "mainstream press", we're kicking their ass right now."........Is just wrong & again based upon the "intelligence" info given to us by GW Bush. (& we know how accurate that has always been) Our soldiers are being shot at & killed in Iraq, but not by the Al Quaida forces that GW would have you believe. They are being attacked as part of a Sunni vs Shiite vs US Occupatuion civil war that is raging in Iraq right now & Al Quiada has a very small role in that fight. Just as the convenient story that our government told us during the Vietrnam War.... that every Vietnamese we killed was automaticaly labeled a "VC"....now all Iraqi insurgents are labeled "Al Quieda". A soldier has no way of knowing who is shooting at him..... We don't even speak their language! All he (the soldier) knows is that he is being attacked & his buddies are being killed. By whom, he must rely on his government to provide that info.....and this government lies!
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:45 am

News Flash

ALL GOVERNMENTS LIE !!

It comes with the terratory: politics.

How can you tell if a politian is lying?? His lips are moving.

Greg L
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:15 am

LsFarm wrote:I thought I was going to ignor this thread... Damn..

Richard, you are talking apples and oranges...
One area where GW messed up, in my field: the airlines.. He should have asked for a volunteer air marshal 'army'.. all the retired police, firemen, Military, MPs, etc. all with a background in civil service and safety, These volunteers could have been given a two day course and put into every domestic airline flight... GW could have announced within a month that every american airline domestic flight had at least one if not two armed federal marshals on board. The public was looking for safety,, my company JetBlue had every one of our aircraft equiped with an armored cockpit door within 30 days after 9/11. It had four 1/2" titanium deadbolts to lock the door from the cockpit side, and a 1/2" layer of Kevlar board.. a 12 at point blank could not get through the door, and a fire ax could not break through the hinges and deadbolts This brought customers back into the skies on jetblue way ahead of the other airlines. Customers were looking for security, some indication that everything was not the same as before 9/11.


Greg L


Running around today so I will have to respond a little at a time

As far as your ideas about an army of Sky Marshals, it is not as easy to do as you think. In the mid 1970's, with all the skyjackings going on, our government pressed agents from many different agencies to temporarily fill in as sky marshals. My cousin, a Customs Special Agent at the time, was assigned a number of flights & was not trained to handle the very different role of Sky Marshal. He hated it!!
Think of the reality of a Sky Marshal's job:
1. Your life consists of sitting in a cramped airliner...hour after hour.......day after day....year after year & hardly ever being home. Living out of a suitcase...sleeping in hotels....eating in reataurants....having no personal or family life & always having to remain alert to immediately leap into action to stop a very quick threat in a crowded aircraft.
2. Who is going to do that job? The turnover rate would be incredible & I fear that a real skyjacking event would turn into a bloodbath onboard that cramped aircraft.
3. You are a pilot......How easy do you think it is to pick out your target, shoot just it & not hit innocent passengers or damage vital aircraft structures?
4. Just staying awake would be almost impossible to do!


As a civilian passenger, I wouldn;t want some retired geezer, with only a 2 day training course to open fire in my crowded airliner!! ( I think I'd be tempted to try to hide behind the hijacker to avoid the fusilade of wild shots coming from the muzzle of "Grandpa Air Marshal's" gun)
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:31 am

Hi richard, I don't think the flying public would have cared, they wanted some federal or state level cop on every flight.. I agree that the training needs to be quite a bit more than a 2 day course.. But an armed person on every flight would have worked..
And of course the volunteers would have to be screened for 'cowboys, hero-wantabe's, and idiots. BUT it would have saved our airline industry a great deal of pain and bleeding of money.

Be careful with the 'old retired geezer' name,, we all will resemble that sooner than we wish !!! :? :roll: :D :lol:

Greg L
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:41 am

LsFarm wrote:Hi richard, I don't think the flying public would have cared, they wanted some federal or state level cop on every flight.. I agree that the training needs to be quite a bit more than a 2 day course.. But an armed person on every flight would have worked..
And of course the volunteers would have to be screened for 'cowboys, hero-wantabe's, and idiots. BUT it would have saved our airline industry a great deal of pain and bleeding of money.

Be careful with the 'old retired geezer' name,, we all will resemble that sooner than we wish !!! :? :roll: :D :lol:

Greg L



Hey....I am one!! (& I do agree about the usefulness to just calm the fears of the flying public)

BTW, Are you an airline pilot? (I had about 12 hrs of flight training but never finished my private pilot training b4 I got married in my junior year at Northeastern Univ. & couldn't afford toi finish.....flew Cessna 150's & 172's)
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:43 am

I don't worry about old geezers, the Isrealis put a bunch of grandfathers with Uzi submachineguns at all their schools years ago to prevent attacks on the kids @ school. Works like a charm, they haven't lost a single child to a school attack since they started it. Apparently, the evildoers are scared to death of doing harm there. I guess they don't want to meet Allah at the hands of an "old Geezer" with nothing to show for it. :)
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: ktm rider On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:04 pm

coaledsweat wrote:I don't worry about old geezers, the Isrealis put a bunch of grandfathers with Uzi submachineguns at all their schools years ago to prevent attacks on the kids @ school. Works like a charm, they haven't lost a single child to a school attack since they started it. Apparently, the evildoers are scared to death of doing harm there. I guess they don't want to meet Allah at the hands of an "old Geezer" with nothing to show for it. :)


Hey, maybe we need to do that right here in the good ol' US of A. I would apply once I retire for sure. I would also suggest keeping the Uzi or atleast an MP 5 or something other than a crappy hand gun. Something that IS visible and shows that we are no longer playing around when it comes to the safety of our kids...
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:17 pm

Hi Richard, yes I'm an airline pilot, I fly for Jetblue airways,, been there since late 2001.. I fly captain in the airbus A320.
So like I said I have to deal with the virtually useless TSA on a daily basis.

Greg L
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:03 pm

Devil5052 wrote: Clinton is already out of office & cant hurt this country any more


I disagree, if Hillary is elected the new "first lady" will be "advising" her continuously. Even though she is "the smartest women in the world" I think Slick Willy will be the one calling the shots.
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Re: The Problem With Republicans

PostBy: coalkirk On: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:21 pm

He even said so today in a speech he made. He actually said, "If you elect me,..."
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