soot build up

Re: soot build up

PostBy: Indiana dave On: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:58 am

That's great! I've burned anth before with those type of results, light brown, very fine ash, no soot whatsoever! Although where I live, it's almost cheaper to reconnect the gas furnace than to burn that. We have three steam traction engines so, we keep a decent supply of bit coal around.
Indiana dave
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton model 1600m
Coal Size/Type: bit coal, egg to foot ball size


Re: soot build up

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:49 pm

bit coal soot will burn, but, with the low energy content of powdery soot and the soot's insulating properties, its easily extinguished, not intense (doesn't contain much energy unlike the tarry creosote of wood), and does not get hot and burn for a long time like creosote.

A soot fire with bit coal is NOTHING like a creosote chimney fire with wood creosote. To get the soot to ignite, you'll have to get your pipe to around 5-600F and have flames extending into it, and then it might bring the temp up (with heavy buildup) to around 7-800F before rapidly running out of fuel and extinguishing. This won't create much of a flame, but rather more of an orange glow. If you've ever seen soot burn off the inside of a firebox during a hot fire, you'll see it begin to glow then just disappear. Again, anything with carbon will burn, but at what temp, how intensely, and what are the deleterious effects. Igniting soot created only from bituminous coal is nothing like the dangerous, hot, and intense actual fire you get with wood creosote.

If you burn wood with the bit coal you can have creosote attach to the powdery soot and that will burn intensely and has a low ignition temp.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: soot build up

PostBy: Indiana dave On: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:57 pm

That must have been what had happened, when I had my bout with secondary combustion chamber fire, I had. Ominous roar but, after only starting a pile of crumpled paper, to start off some kindling.
Indiana dave
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton model 1600m
Coal Size/Type: bit coal, egg to foot ball size

Re: soot build up

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:08 am

Berlin wrote:bit coal soot will burn, but, with the low energy content of powdery soot and the soot's insulating properties, its easily extinguished, not intense (doesn't contain much energy unlike the tarry creosote of wood), and does not get hot and burn for a long time like creosote.

A soot fire with bit coal is NOTHING like a creosote chimney fire with wood creosote. To get the soot to ignite, you'll have to get your pipe to around 5-600F and have flames extending into it, and then it might bring the temp up (with heavy buildup) to around 7-800F before rapidly running out of fuel and extinguishing.
This won't create much of a flame, but rather more of an orange glow. If you've ever seen soot burn off the inside of a firebox during a hot fire, you'll see it begin to glow then just disappear. Again, anything with carbon will burn, but at what temp, how intensely, and what are the deleterious effects. Igniting soot created only from bituminous coal is nothing like the dangerous, hot, and intense actual fire you get with wood creosote.

If you burn wood with the bit coal you can have creosote attach to the powdery soot and that will burn intensely and has a low ignition temp.

That must be why I never noticed anything. I have no thermometer on the flue pipe, and I can't see inside the Clayton with the door closed.

In retrospect, I think some of the long stringy soot 'webs' that were hanging down did disappear after I built that big wood fire the one time(I wanted to see if it would burn), but only the long ones near the center of the firebox disappeared. It's been a good 5 years since I did that though.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: soot build up

PostBy: Jimbitmen On: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:05 pm

I burn bit coal only. My experience with the soot/fly ash is that it will burn if allowed to build up and you have a big fire in the stove. The fire is more a 'cigar' type of burn, no flames. It will travel up the chimney as it burns all the soot/ash out, producing some sparks and black smoke outside. It seems to be self limiting, but who wants any fire in their chimney, so I usually vacuum it out once a week.
Jimbitmen
 

Re: soot build up

PostBy: Indiana dave On: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:23 pm

Thank you for your input, I've been cleaning my flue once a week as well. It's fairly easy and my house is one hundred and five years old and the chimney is in exact center, running from the basement, through two storys and an attic before exiting through the roof.Something about a flue fire, just bothers me.
A friend told me that I'm paranoid. Maybe but, the house is still standing :)
Indiana dave
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton model 1600m
Coal Size/Type: bit coal, egg to foot ball size

Re: soot build up

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Indiana dave wrote:Thank you for your input, I've been cleaning my flue once a week as well. It's fairly easy and my house is one hundred and five years old and the chimney is in exact center, running from the basement, through two storys and an attic before exiting through the roof.Something about a flue fire, just bothers me.
A friend told me that I'm paranoid. Maybe but, the house is still standing :)

It's best to be paranoid about flue fires, especially with the furnaces like you and I have. They are not airtight, if a flue fire would start, we can't stop the air that is fueling it.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: soot build up

PostBy: corey On: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:47 am

SWPaDon wrote:
Indiana dave wrote:Thank you for your input, I've been cleaning my flue once a week as well. It's fairly easy and my house is one hundred and five years old and the chimney is in exact center, running from the basement, through two storys and an attic before exiting through the roof.Something about a flue fire, just bothers me.
A friend told me that I'm paranoid. Maybe but, the house is still standing :)

It's best to be paranoid about flue fires, especially with the furnaces like you and I have. They are not airtight, if a flue fire would start, we can't stop the air that is fueling it.


hey I still clean mine each year done cleaned it 2 times this season dew to green wood.
corey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: USS Ashley coal stove
Coal Size/Type: Eastern KY bituminous


Re: soot build up

PostBy: corey On: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:22 pm

Berlin wrote:bit coal soot will burn, but, with the low energy content of powdery soot and the soot's insulating properties, its easily extinguished, not intense (doesn't contain much energy unlike the tarry creosote of wood), and does not get hot and burn for a long time like creosote.

A soot fire with bit coal is NOTHING like a creosote chimney fire with wood creosote. To get the soot to ignite, you'll have to get your pipe to around 5-600F and have flames extending into it, and then it might bring the temp up (with heavy buildup) to around 7-800F before rapidly running out of fuel and extinguishing. This won't create much of a flame, but rather more of an orange glow. If you've ever seen soot burn off the inside of a firebox during a hot fire, you'll see it begin to glow then just disappear. Again, anything with carbon will burn, but at what temp, how intensely, and what are the deleterious effects. Igniting soot created only from bituminous coal is nothing like the dangerous, hot, and intense actual fire you get with wood creosote.

If you burn wood with the bit coal you can have creosote attach to the powdery soot and that will burn intensely and has a low ignition temp.

Berlin this is helpful thank you.
corey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: USS Ashley coal stove
Coal Size/Type: Eastern KY bituminous

Re: soot build up

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:39 am

I posted this question on the boiler page but thought best to ask fellow bit burners.. Bought a boiler from a friend and he told me the only thing that he hates about it is the creosote build up... argued with him that coal does not produce it he said take a look.. it does have a substance that looks like creosote on the pipes and water jacket and door not a ton but some ... he burns creosote remover in it and said hard to brush off ... I still do not believe it is creosote but definitely is something I do not get in my hand fired stove... we use Usibelli coal sub bit .... any ideas as to what this may be and best ways to clean it out .... it is an open air outdoor wood boiler with shaker grates he burns mainly coal ... only wood to get it started and rarely does the coal fire go out during the winter
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: soot build up

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:30 pm

Creosote comes from wood, soot comes from the bituminous coal that I use. Smoldering wood will create creosote very quickly. The geener the wood, the more creosote.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: soot build up

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:16 pm

There are few bit burners here and even fewer sub bit burners. I have only burned eastern bit coal and it only makes soot, no creosote whatsoever. Could the "creosote" be from wood?
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: soot build up

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:43 pm

Coal Tar Creosote is flammable. I believe it is the stuff they use to preserve things like railroad ties and telephone poles.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: soot build up

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:45 pm

lsayre wrote:Coal Tar Creosote is flammable. I believe it is the stuff they use to preserve things like railroad ties and telephone poles.


That has been banned for those uses for decades.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: soot build up

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:25 pm

McGiever wrote:
lsayre wrote:Coal Tar Creosote is flammable. I believe it is the stuff they use to preserve things like railroad ties and telephone poles.


That has been banned for those uses for decades.


Must be good stuff. A carcinogen?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)