Vintage Tube Radio Can Capacitor Question

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 1:08 pm

I figure theres a few of you that may know the answer, plus this is the only forum I hang out in. I think I know but want to make sure...

I've been recapping a few old radio's from my childhood and have recapped 2 that were dead and they both worked when done (Yeh!) and am now doing a 1937 Silvertone AC radio that was my Great Grandparents. It does still work but I want to replace the caps before they give up, being almost 80 years old. Its had quite a bit of work done before from the looks of it. Anyway, I want to replace a can electrolytic capacitor with just a simple electro cap under the radio, leaving the original can on top. There are 2 leads on the existing cap. I have the cap circled in red. Does the negative lead on my new cap attach to the wires the left side, thru the other paper cap, then to the chassis? And the positive side of new cap to the wires attached on the right side? I just want to make sure as trust me, I am no expert on this. Please note that the pic makes the solder on the left side appear to touch the center of the can but it does not. Thanks!

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silvertone radio 015.JPG
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Post by WNY » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 6:13 pm

I would assume if it goes thru the other cap or resistor to the chasis, its probably ground (-), trace the other side and see if goes to a power source.

Post a front pic of you radio, I have an old sivertone console radio I picked up at a antique place. needs a new power cord, but they said it worked.

 
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Post by mozz » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 7:06 pm

Those paper caps which go to ground off your high voltage are the ones, when they go bad make the chassis live. You don't need it. Or if you want, replace with a good name 630v cap. All paper caps should be changed no matter how they test. There are many forums for old and antique radios. I probably have about 50 tube radios here and about 5000 tubes give or take. Sold off 13 consoles at Kutztown radio fest a few years back when we moved. Find the model number and get the schematic. Silvertone was Sears, so the radio could be almost any make with a Sears cabinet. Have a complete set of Riders manuals here somewhere.

 
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 7:23 pm

Yes, Im replacing all the caps before they do go bad. I have a schematic and understand enough to know the size of the caps, how many, where etc. I understand all the voltage and tolerances of the caps so think I'll be alright on that. Also, the sides of the radio had a paper glued on with all the part sizes which really helped. Its just the cans I don't completely understand and when I search online they just say to replace with another but just not enough detail for me.

Heres a pic if I can get it to load this time as its a large file.

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silvertone radio 001.JPG
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Post by mozz » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 7:40 pm

I had to run upstairs to the spare room, I have that exact model. I started collecting these late 90's, would only pay $5-$10 at yard sales and flea markets. My dad had a tv radio repair shop in the 60's so I knew pretty much how to fix electronic stuff since I was a kid. Now, they want top dollar anytime I see a wooden radio so my collecting has just about stopped. I sold a few, had a Zenith childs tombstone, black airplane dial, I got cheap. 10 years later saw they were going on Ebay for $500, so that got sold for $600 and paid car insurance for 6 months. I have 1 or 2 I recapped, few I redid the wood, but most are just sitting collecting dust, which doesn't bother me.
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Also, those knobs on yours, the ones on the right, may be Philco rosetta knobs, worth a few dollars, will finance your restoration. Opps, not rosetta knobs, but may be Philco. You can make a nice set of wooden knobs for that, no one will know.

 
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Post by skip » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 7:56 pm

That will be a nice radio when done. I remember recapping and replacing most of the resistors in one a few years ago. The e-cap in question may use the can body to ground to the chassis. If there is not any insulation (paper or cardboard) between the e-cap can and chassis, in probably grounds to chassis. There may be two e-caps in the can, that would account for the two separate wires. Is there any markings in the side of the e-cap can? If you post the model number, I could look it up and know for sure.

This is great, two of my favorite hobbies, tube radios and antique coal stoves. :D
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Post by mozz » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 8:00 pm

WNY wrote:I would assume if it goes thru the other cap or resistor to the chasis, its probably ground (-), trace the other side and see if goes to a power source.

Post a front pic of you radio, I have an old sivertone console radio I picked up at a antique place. needs a new power cord, but they said it worked.
Advice, do not plug it in. When those caps are bad, they leak, which means draw current, often they are shorted. If you plug it in and they go pop, you might smoke the power transformer, which you will never find parts for. There were no fuses back then to protect the power supply.


 
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 8:24 pm

I'll probably just use the knobs that are there since thats what my Grandparents used, but thanks for noticing them as I knew they were wrong. How odd to have the same radio in your collection. Like everything, they have all went up in price as they got old.

Those radios look nice with the stove Skip.

I did an old Airline farm radio my Dad bought new in 1949 that hadnt played since the 50's too. I replaced the caps and rigged up a 90V and 1 1/2V battery power pack and I cant even tell you how happy my Dad is to play that again.

The model number for the silvertone is 4564. I don't see any spacer on the metal cap I pictured earlier and the side just mentions one cap number, which is 8 mfd. Theres another that is 16 mfd which has a spacer. Heres another pic of the whole bottom. The metal caps circled in red. There is a blue 10MFD electro you can see also. It was not on the schematic.

I replaced 8 caps on it today. There are the 2 cans, and one paper, then I plan to add a safety cap where you can see the power cord attach to a metal cap attached to the frame.

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silvertone radio 015.JPG
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Post by skip » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 9:11 pm

Ok it looks like the 8mf e-cap is just grounded to the chassis and the other cap and resistor go to the positive side. The 16 mf cap is not grouned directly to the chassis, but goes to the speaker and to the plate of the 80 tube. Exact specs are not too critical, you could use a 10mf and a 20mf cap BUT make sure the voltage for the caps is minimal 450, higher would be better. Double check those dog bone resistors, I have found more and more, they drift out side thier tolerances after all these years.

Thank you for the complement, that is only a small portion of me collection. Now if I could just find room for more stoves :shock:

 
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 9:51 pm

Just to make sure, you are saying on the metal cap on the right side of my pic that I have circled, the left side of it is where I'd attach the positive wire of a new cap? and neg of new cap to the other side? To a novice like me that seems backwards, positive to neg, and is why I want it clarified.

On the one I have circled on the left side, the side of it that goes to speakers and tube should be which, neg or pos on the new cap? then the wires on the other side go to the other side of the new cap? Sorry for dumb questions.

Thanks for the help. At this point I havent bothered to check resistance on anything as that will be new learning for me too, lol. Ive just been replacing what I know needs to go for sure, the caps.

You can always keep adding additions to your home. Then you need more heat, plus have room for more radios :) If I expand my radio collection at all, it will likely be old battery farm radios. They are more nostalgic for me.

 
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 10:22 pm

Heres what I have of the schematic:

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silvertone radio 011.JPG
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Post by skip » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 10:54 pm

Ok I have attached the schematic (PDF) and highlighted the area around the 8mf e-cap (C26). The neg of the cap should go to the chassis, I suggest soldering it to a existing ground point like where C17 (the paper cap attched to 8mf already) is grounded. The positive of the C26 connects to one side of C17, to the resistor R12 (210Kohm) and the red(?) wire going to the plate od 6B5. I have circled that connection in yellow. The other tab on the e-cap can looks like a common tie point for a resistor and another wire. I may be a ground hard to tell.

For the 16mf cap it looks like the neg goes to the power transformer (right side wire in your pictuer) and the postive goes to the speaker and filiment of the 80 tube (left side wire in your picture). That is hard to be sure but it makes sense.

Hope this helps

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Pages from M0017112.pdf
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silvertone%20radio%20015.JPG
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 15, 2015 11:48 pm

Thanks Skip! I did just notice on the 16mf cap that one side post has a red color, DUH, I should have caught that. And that is the side you said it was, positive. The other post is silver.

On the 8mf side, I will take better pics tomorrow and post them, just to make sure, as there are 3 wires attached on each side. I'm a little paranoid on it so want to make sure. Before I started on these 3 radios I had zero experience, and it shows, lol

 
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Post by WNY » Fri. Jan. 16, 2015 6:20 am

Here's mine I found at a local antique shop. haven't put a new cord on it yet, but the owner said it was her parents and remembers it growing up and it working.

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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Fri. Jan. 16, 2015 11:25 am

Nice WNY! That baby cost about half a car when new. Its amazing how expensive they were new, and were the central part of most peoples homes in their day. I like to listen to WSM Nashville outside during the summer at night when they play the Opry. Its a lot nicer with vintage radios. Ive got a 90 foot shortwave/AM antenna running from my house to a shed so can pick up real good.

Skip, heres a couple more pics of the 2 cans showing wires better. I highlighted lines with blue, those are the wires on the cans that you thought go to the neg lead of the electro caps. Just want to make sure. I never mentioned it has shortwave too if that makes a difference. It will look different than my last pics as I have replaced caps and one wire (which is yellow in the picture) since the last pics I took this last summer. After your comments, I decided to go ahead and replace the dog bones too, and will order them this weekend. Im not a master solderer as my pics show, lol. Thanks again!

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