Glenwood 111

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Aug. 10, 2015 6:07 am

If you go the cast brick route, since the 111 pot is a cylinder, the bricks will be easier to make a mold for - no tricky angles at the top and bottom corners like the #6.

Your bricks are in better shape than mine. You might be able to use one of the best bricks as the master to make the mold with ???

This is the castable refractory that Wilson recommended I use.
https://www.rutland.com/p/13/castable-refractory-cement
A 25 pound bucket was just enough to do one set of bricks for the #6
(15-1/2 inch diameter by 11 inch tapering depth.), if your careful to not waste any by mixing too much for each batch.

By testing , I figured out how much dry refractory cement to put in a clear Tupperware bucket then marked the level on the outside with a Sharpie pen. Then I only had to fill to that point with dry refractory cement, then add water and mix to get the consistency needed for each brick.

There's a number of ways to go for molding.
1. Making one mold for both top and bottom.
2. Making two molds, one of the top and one for the bottom.
3. Using the fire pot and an inner form such as a plastic bucket. Then place temporary separator strips of thin card board to divide the brick space into six equal sections. Then spray the surfaces with a releasing agent such as cooking spray. I used the cheap Wal-Mart house brand equivalent to Pam cooking spray and it worked excellent. Then pour the castable refractory into those spaces and let it harden.

If you go with a single mold, you can make all 12 bricks like the bottom row and then grind the curved slope to the top edge of the top row. Then you can use the same mold top and bottom. The two bricks that have the cutout for the clinker door can be cut with a masonry wheel, or drill a series of holes with a 1/4 inch masonry bit to form the cutout, then connect the holes by chiseling out the waste between the holes and grind to finish shape.

If you use a separate mold, the castable must stay over night in the mold to reach full strength. That means a day for each brick. If you cast six at a time by using the pot as a mold, that's just two days to cast two rows.

Hope this helps.

Paul


 
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Post by joeq » Mon. Aug. 10, 2015 7:51 pm

I'm sorta leaning towards option 3 Paul, but haven't ruled out multiple single molds. I know a lady with a kiln, that used to make "tons" of ceramic statues, (as a small part time business), and hoping she can also lend some advice. As for the Rutland cement, are you saying this compound will work as the brick material itself, or just the filler between the bricks?
Also, can I get an opinion on black paint for this stove? I saw some recommendations on CCs thread for stove paint, promoting Rutland and I think Williams (?), and also Meeco 401, but it appears none of these can be used through a paint sprayer. I really don't want to be rattle canning this stove, and was wondering about prepping these things for paint. I would think the process would be to wash with a degreasing agent, prime and then paint. Maybe cure in an oven? It appears there's a red oxide primer under the black paint in the stove barrel, but not sure if Glenwood applied that, or a PO.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Aug. 10, 2015 8:07 pm

Joe,
The Rutland castable refractory, that I linked to, is a dry refractory powder that you mix with water. It is not meant to be used as a seam sealer. It's just for casting firepot linings and bricks. It's very much like working with concrete.

If mixed a tad wet, it then it can be poured into a mold. Or, mixed in a ratio as recommended, it can be putty-knifed into a mold, as shown in one of my pictures in my previous post at the top of page 20.

Paul

 
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Post by Canaan coal man » Mon. Aug. 10, 2015 9:59 pm

Joe,
As far as my rebuild thread I went with a stove polish it's a oily greasy pigment that really soaks into the pores of the cast especially if ur rebuilding the stove in the hot sun :D . I knew without a good sand blasting witch I didn't have access to, there is no guarantee on the paint doing its job plus Iv read it will crack and peel. I figured also I can't easily drag the stove out of the house to re spray once a year. There are a few brands as u listed meeco Rutland. I went with a brand called imperial I got it at lowes, 7 bucks for a little tub I bought 3 and I'm pretty sure I'll get my whole stove done in side and out with all 3. I figure I can touch up when ever I want with out any over spray.
The only thing I sprayed with high temp paint was the barrel and a steel parts I re fabricated for the stove like the diverter flap that I posted a picture of.

I don't know if you picked up stove cement for the seams but I went with Hercules made by oatley. Guess we're I got that ........ Lowes as William suggested. My lowes carried the heavy body mix and it worked really well for me. I'll probably go thru a little more than a bucket for my whole build. I think I went thru half a the bucket alone just on setting the bricks in the pot.

On ur bricks, it might be worth calling or visiting a web a company called Sheffield pottery. They deal with all sorts of pottery refractory and they sell fire bricks they might be able to help. If my 6 bricks were in any more ruff shape I was gonna go there and have then recast if they could do it. There like 10min away from me in Sheffield mass right on rt 7. Based on ur pics I think you would be able to clean them butter then and re set them to save you time and money. But I respect your decision on not cobing them back together like I did. I hope you can get them figured out in the time constraints.

Brenden..........

 
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Post by joeq » Mon. Aug. 10, 2015 10:37 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Joe,
The Rutland castable refractory, that I linked to, is a dry refractory powder that you mix with water. It is not meant to be used as a seam sealer. It's just for casting firepot linings and bricks. It's very much like working with concrete.
Paul
So you're comfortable with this product Paul, and like its performance from your other projects? Good to know. Thanx.

 
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Post by joeq » Mon. Aug. 10, 2015 10:44 pm

Canaan coal man wrote:Joe,
On ur bricks, it might be worth calling or visiting a web a company called Sheffield pottery. They deal with all sorts of pottery refractory and they sell fire bricks they might be able to help. I respect your decision on not cobing them back together like I did. I hope you can get them figured out in the time constraints.
Brenden..........
Some say the original bricks are a better quality than what's available today, but I don't know. Mine all broke with the exception of 1. It wouldn't be the worst case scenario to glue them back together and re-use them, but I'm gunna see what else is out there. Thanx for the tip on Sheffield pottery Brenden. It's a bit of a haul from here, but may be worth the trip.

 
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Aug. 10, 2015 11:32 pm

One can buy quarts of Stove Bright paint, colors are few and not sure if can be sprayed.
It is good for 1200*F and recommended with no primer.
Will "cure" during first few fires...outside fires...you've been warned.


 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Aug. 11, 2015 4:56 am

joeq wrote:
Canaan coal man wrote:Joe,
On ur bricks, it might be worth calling or visiting a web a company called Sheffield pottery. They deal with all sorts of pottery refractory and they sell fire bricks they might be able to help. I respect your decision on not cobing them back together like I did. I hope you can get them figured out in the time constraints.
Brenden..........
Some say the original bricks are a better quality than what's available today, but I don't know. Mine all broke with the exception of 1. It wouldn't be the worst case scenario to glue them back together and re-use them, but I'm gunna see what else is out there. Thanx for the tip on Sheffield pottery Brenden. It's a bit of a haul from here, but may be worth the trip.
Not sure of other brand stoves, but the original bricks in my Glenwood kitchen range and Glenwood #6 are red fire clay (more like pinkish in color). Same red clay for an original, unused Glenwood range fire brick that Wilson sent me. Yes, the ones in both stoves cracked, but they are over 100 years old, and were still useable with the cracks.

The Rutland castable has very fine fibers in it to help prevent cracking. If it works as well as the plastic mesh fibers that were added to the radiant-heat concrete floor of my shop when they were poured, I'll be very happy. After many years, the floor has only one tiny crack down the middle in a 24 x 22 foot one-piece slab. The paint room is 24 x 14 and no cracks. There are no expansion joints in either and both get thermal expansion stress being heated and cooled many times a day during the winter.

Paul

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Aug. 11, 2015 5:01 am

joeq wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Joe,
The Rutland castable refractory, that I linked to, is a dry refractory powder that you mix with water. It is not meant to be used as a seam sealer. It's just for casting firepot linings and bricks. It's very much like working with concrete.
Paul
So you're comfortable with this product Paul, and like its performance from your other projects? Good to know. Thanx.
I haven't used the Rutland castable before this. It was recommended by Wilson and I trust his many years of professional stove restoration experience.

Paul

 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 9:22 am

Continued on the clean-up, and coating the metal with Skyco. I'm amazed at the condition of the metal barrel of this fine stove. virtually no rust or rot. And I believe it to be the original barrel, seeing it has the stiffening ribs rolled into it. I ended up rattle canning the inside of this with Rutland high temp stove paint, only cause my paint gun is too big to get in there.
glenwood 111 001.JPG
.JPG | 86.4KB | glenwood 111 001.JPG
skyco.JPG
.JPG | 116.6KB | skyco.JPG
This is the only rot on this barrel.
barrel ding.JPG
.JPG | 92.8KB | barrel ding.JPG

 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 9:47 am

I'm fighting with these firebricks, trying to figure the best way to mold them. As Wilson or Paul stated earlier, grinding them to remove the slag is almost futile. The build-up is tougher than metal, and no type of grinder will remove it. I ended up breaking my only solid brick, and believe me when I tell you, I was working "extremely" gentile. Just the vibrations of the grinder alone, caused it to crack, W/O any heavy forcing. I started with a 7 1/4 60 grit rubber backed disc grinder, but it wouldn't even dent it. Then I moved on to my 4" Milwaukee solid grinding discs, and it was a bit more aggressive, but not very successful. that's when it broke. So now, I'm gluing it, along with the others, and trying to think of other options. trying to find a bucket with the same OD as the ID of the bricks. It appears to be "approx. 10 1/2", but it's tough to measure, with all the slag.
My local Ace can get me Castable Refractory, but the color Buff, seams to be a little confusing. One of the other local dealers has some that was labeled "Light Brown", rather than Buff, but I've been corresponding with a rep at Rutland, whose been very helpful, but hasn't gotten back to me on this color question. Not a huge deal, but if I can keep as close to the original color, I'ld rather, if the option is there.
Here's a pic of a couple bricks glued and setting up.
bricks glued.JPG
.JPG | 123.3KB | bricks glued.JPG

 
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Post by franco b » Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 10:30 am

Should be pretty simple because the fire pot is without a taper. Measure inside diameter and form should be two inches or a bit less in diameter. Perhaps a sonotube? I would use a piece of cheap light sheet metal formed into the right diameter and overlapped at the joint and held in place with four sheet metal screws with heads on the inside for easy removal of the form. Oil the form. 26 gauge should be fine. Easy to form by hand and you need a piece about 40 inches long by the height of the fire pot.

Measure inside diameter of fire pot and deduct 2 inches and multiply by 3.1416 to get length and add a few inches for overlap.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 11:11 am

joeq wrote:I'm fighting with these firebricks, trying to figure the best way to mold them. As Wilson or Paul stated earlier, grinding them to remove the slag is almost futile. The build-up is tougher than metal, and no type of grinder will remove it. I ended up breaking my only solid brick, and believe me when I tell you, I was working "extremely" gentile. Just the vibrations of the grinder alone, caused it to crack, W/O any heavy forcing. I started with a 7 1/4 60 grit rubber backed disc grinder, but it wouldn't even dent it. Then I moved on to my 4" Milwaukee solid grinding discs, and it was a bit more aggressive, but not very successful. that's when it broke. So now, I'm gluing it, along with the others, and trying to think of other options. trying to find a bucket with the same OD as the ID of the bricks. It appears to be "approx. 10 1/2", but it's tough to measure, with all the slag.
My local Ace can get me Castable Refractory, but the color Buff, seams to be a little confusing. One of the other local dealers has some that was labeled "Light Brown", rather than Buff, but I've been corresponding with a rep at Rutland, whose been very helpful, but hasn't gotten back to me on this color question. Not a huge deal, but if I can keep as close to the original color, I'ld rather, if the option is there.
Here's a pic of a couple bricks glued and setting up.
bricks glued.JPG
That's because much of the clinker scale is not iron anymore. It's an iron oxide. Most oxides are harder than the parent metal.

Example; pure aluminum is a very soft metal. But in an oxide form, it's a very hard. Because it gets so hard, aluminum oxide is used as a very common industrial abrasive.

Paul

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 11:27 am

Joe,
The "buff" color is just slightly grayer version of concrete color when the bricks are fully dry. Just like you see in the pictures I posted on page 20, of the new bricks in my #6.

This past week, I just ordered another 25 pound bucket of the Rutland #601, castable refractory to make a second set of bricks for my #6. In that size bucket it only comes in "buff" color. And it's a really nice, strong, screw-top bucket worth washing out and saving for other uses.

Loren in sales at Rutland was very helpful. One quick phone call, paid by credit card, and it was shipped that same day. Two days later it was at my door by UPS.

There's no source for it locally so I have to order it in. Directly from Rutland the total with shipping, was cheaper than any other internet sales source I could find.

From her follow-up email notifying me of the shipment that same day I placed the order.

Loren | Customer Service Representative
P: 800.544.1307 ext 306| F: 802.775.5262

Paul

 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 1:32 pm

Thanx again Mc G, Brenden and Paul. I'm thinkin the buff color is for the cement, and the light brown is for the "castable"? I just picked up a 12lb bucket of light brown to play with.
On another note, I know I already asked about the paint, but I just saw on the shelf at Ace, a pint can of Rutland Flat black stove paint. (Good for 1200*) Has anyone here used this stuff, and is the color comparable to the factory finish? I also see Rustoleum has high heat paint, (black), and I've been trying to find out if it requires a primer or not.
And Brenden, you rubbed on your stove polish, and were happy with the results? Have you run this stuff on your stove yet?
McG, I'll also look into the stove bright. I don't think I've seen it on the shelves locally. I want something hat will last and looks factory correct.


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