Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:59 pm

We've either got to draw down our forces in Iraq (OK, maybe not to zero) or we have to institute a draft.


If yes, maybe a draft can be avoided, but that means we may have to yield a measure of control over what's decided. If no, back to the draft question.


I will admit I am behind the times when it comes to the U.S. media, but can someone please tell me where it is mentioned that there is a Military Draft pending??? All I can find considering any military draft in the US is back in 2006. If there is nothing newer than 2006 I would have to say that that is old news. Was a military draft even mentioned in any debate or campaign yet? What's the candidates views on instituting a draft?
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:16 pm

BugsyR wrote:
We've either got to draw down our forces in Iraq (OK, maybe not to zero) or we have to institute a draft.


If yes, maybe a draft can be avoided, but that means we may have to yield a measure of control over what's decided. If no, back to the draft question.


I will admit I am behind the times when it comes to the U.S. media, but can someone please tell me where it is mentioned that there is a Military Draft pending??? All I can find considering any military draft in the US is back in 2006. If there is nothing newer than 2006 I would have to say that that is old news. Was a military draft even mentioned in any debate or campaign yet? What's the candidates views on instituting a draft?


It's not that it's old news at all, IMO. NY Congressman Charlie Rangel brought up a bill (maybe somewhere around '06) to reinstate the draft, and it was promptly killed. But the point was made -- and remains just as valid today -- that we can't chronically remove all the personnel and equipment from Nat'l Guards around the states to keep foreign deployments at current levels.

So we need NATO (with the collective control that implies), or a drawdown, or a draft. And you can bet it'll come up in the general election.
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:26 pm

Okay, good no draft pending.

So to get my mind straight, Congressman Charlie Rangel, D-NY, spear headed a bill to re-instate the draft. Was it dropped by a Republican majority Congress at the time?
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:32 pm

BugsyR wrote:Okay, good no draft pending.

So to get my mind straight, Congressman Charlie Rangel, D-NY, spear headed a bill to re-instate the draft. Was it dropped by a Republican majority Congress at the time?


"Spear headed" -- I get it! :verycool:

But, yes, IIRC, it was before the '06 election, intended to get Congress to focus on the military costs (both in equipment and personnel) of the grandiose version of the "War on Terror."

Which may not be as grandiose as Senator McCain's version. :roll:
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:34 pm

Charlie Rangel's point here was........ can you imagine how fast this Iraq war (occupation) would end if some of the neocons in power, like "7 deferment Cheney" & "Please Daddy Get Me In The Nat'l Guard Bush" actualy had to risk their priveledged hides defending their country? (just woke up from a nap so I'm not in a good mood!)
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:40 pm

But, yes, IIRC, it was before the '06 election, intended to get Congress to focus on the military costs (both in equipment and personnel) of the grandiose version of the "War on Terror."


Hold it...are you saying that this Bill was introduced just to get Congress' attention? Please tell me that this was not just some political ploy fully intended to NOT re-instate the draft. I'm confused here because if a Congressman...and I really don't care what party he is...starts a Bill to re-instate the draft but did not intend to have the draft re-instated...what the #$@% would have happened if the Bill would have passed????????

All these opinions are really warping my mind here! Because I could have sworn that everything that is wrong in our world is all Bush's fault! I need a beer!

(Okay...I know it is wrong to laugh at your own comments but you have got to admit that that last comment is funny.)
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: spc On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:06 pm

If more cities treat the recruitment offices like Berkeley CA does we may have to bring back the draft.
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:45 pm

BugsyR wrote:
But, yes, IIRC, it was before the '06 election, intended to get Congress to focus on the military costs (both in equipment and personnel) of the grandiose version of the "War on Terror."


Hold it...are you saying that this Bill was introduced just to get Congress' attention? Please tell me that this was not just some political ploy fully intended to NOT re-instate the draft. I'm confused here because if a Congressman...and I really don't care what party he is...starts a Bill to re-instate the draft but did not intend to have the draft re-instated...what the #$@% would have happened if the Bill would have passed????????

All these opinions are really warping my mind here! Because I could have sworn that everything that is wrong in our world is all Bush's fault! I need a beer!

(Okay...I know it is wrong to laugh at your own comments but you have got to admit that that last comment is funny.)




Have a beer on me BugsyR &, btw you were right........... everything that is wrong in our world is all Bush's fault! :)
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: ken On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:32 pm

i think Richard summed it up very well.
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:01 pm

Imho I think all the available resourses are not being utilized. These problems aren't associated with a singular prolitical faction. Fact is, the U.S.A. is following policy that has been in place for quite a while. Fighting a war in your back yard doesn't ensure the safety of the masses. This policy has been continued by democats and repuplicans alike. My point being that there should be general support from both " sides" and this country should start acting like it is the most powerful country on earth.Being the benevelent stongman that we are doesn't always mean that we should be in the thick of every fight. Maybe our support does't have to be spread so evenly across the world. Maybe our policies should be relaxed and many countries should be left to their own problems. Bet that the Israelies would be more than happy ( and capable) to police the region. They are held in check now by policy. Don't forget the time we had trying to prevent the retaliation to the bombing by Scud missiles during the first Irag conflict.Our support should also be withdrawn from any of our "allies" who haven't backed us in this fight against terrorism. Our support Should also be withdrawn from NATO. Right now they are like a butch of freeloaders who come to every picnic without bringing a picanic basket. We need to end this mess. I don't think a full scale withdrawl is the answer. Leaves too many innocent people on the hook. When this whole deal started it was unbelieveable the might that the U.S. hit the Tali- Ban with. The one part of Afganistan was bombed like nothing has ever been bombed.
This does need to end . The U.S. has to have the support of her people and the support of the world powers. The people need to voice their opinion to their representatives and the goverment needs to tighten it's belt and withdraw it's support in full from any country not supporting us.
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:17 pm

Our NATO allies are sovereign powers, not our subordinates. They're not obliged to "obey" us.

Bush 41 had enough experience as a diplomat (CIA chief, UN ambassador) to appreciate that. Bush 43 didn't.
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: spc On: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:31 pm

The African people love President Bush but you will never see the msm report on it. He's done more for the Africans than any other President. He started the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, increased funding to fight tuberculosis and malaria & a new fund for other neglected tropical diseases. The Bush Administration also initiated contracts worth $1.2 billion in Tanzania and Ghana from the Millennium Challenge Account. Come you bleeding heart liberals, & you know who I'm talking to, give props to this Pres at least for this.

Read the piece by Bob Geldof in Time.
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:02 pm

Africa? Uh, great. Not that it's unimportant; in fact, African problems have been horribly neglected far too long. But to offer these relatively tiny steps in mitigation of the horrendous foreign policy mess created since 9/11 is not unlike saluting the bandmaster on the Titanic for calling a great tune as the ship goes under.

The plain fact is that we're much less respected internationally than we have been since probably before WWI. And it's singularly the fault of one cowboy's foreign policy, which has exalted power over principle. The world is a community; we can no longer dictate to it. We're going to have to get used to doing a little more listening and a lot less shooting.

There was good news and bad news when we "won" the Cold War nearly 20 years ago. The good news was that the Soviet threat collapsed; the bad news was that, because we won, the rest of the world didn't have to step to our tune anymore to avoid becoming enslaved by the dreaded Commies. Bush 43 has never figured that out. It's sort of like the "globalization" of world politics. Now, it's an "all-volunteer" coalition; if we want our "allies" to help us, we have to pay more attention to what their views are. Because there's no horrible downside to them telling us to "stick it" when we try to order them around.
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: spc On: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:46 pm

Reply in blue.
stockingfull wrote:Africa? Uh, great. Not that it's unimportant; in fact, African problems have been horribly neglected far too long. Thanks to Bill Clinton ;) But to offer these relatively tiny steps in mitigation of the horrendous foreign policy mess created since 9/11 We are in a mess for over throwing a dictator?

The plain fact is that we're much less respected internationally than we have been since probably before WWI. How do you know this do you talk to world leaders? The world is a community; we can no longer dictate to it. We're going to have to get used to doing a little more listening and a lot less shooting. I didn't know you sat in with Dr. Condi Rice when she meets with world leaders. You should tell her to listen more & stop talking.

There was good news and bad news when we "won" the Cold War nearly 20 years ago. The good news was that the Soviet threat collapsed; God bless Ronald Reagan the bad news was that, because we won, the rest of the world didn't have to step to our tune anymore to avoid becoming enslaved by the dreaded Commies. What about China, N. Korea, Iran, al-Qaeda Bush 43 has never figured that out. I'm sure you have a better grasp of it. It's sort of like the "globalization" of world politics. Now, it's an "all-volunteer" coalition; WHAT? if we want our "allies" to help us, we have to pay more attention to what their views are. Bullshit. Because there's no horrible downside to them telling us to "stick it" when we try to order them around. Its amazing how you know so much about foreign policy, Barack Hussein Obama could use you.
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Re: Appeal To Your Intelligence/Logic

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:53 pm

spc wrote:Reply in blue.
stockingfull wrote:Africa? Uh, great. Not that it's unimportant; in fact, African problems have been horribly neglected far too long. Thanks to Bill Clinton ;) But to offer these relatively tiny steps in mitigation of the horrendous foreign policy mess created since 9/11 We are in a mess for over throwing a dictator?

The plain fact is that we're much less respected internationally than we have been since probably before WWI. How do you know this do you talk to world leaders? The world is a community; we can no longer dictate to it. We're going to have to get used to doing a little more listening and a lot less shooting. I didn't know you sat in with Dr. Condi Rice when she meets with world leaders. You should tell her to listen more & stop talking.

There was good news and bad news when we "won" the Cold War nearly 20 years ago. The good news was that the Soviet threat collapsed; God bless Ronald Reagan the bad news was that, because we won, the rest of the world didn't have to step to our tune anymore to avoid becoming enslaved by the dreaded Commies. What about China, N. Korea, Iran, al-Qaeda Bush 43 has never figured that out. I'm sure you have a better grasp of it. It's sort of like the "globalization" of world politics. Now, it's an "all-volunteer" coalition; WHAT? if we want our "allies" to help us, we have to pay more attention to what their views are. *censored*. Because there's no horrible downside to them telling us to "stick it" when we try to order them around. Its amazing how you know so much about foreign policy, Barack Hussein Obama could use you.


:yearight: As usual, Bill Clinton is responsible for all things bad and Ronnie Ray-guns for all thing good.

And Dubya's responsible for ... nothing.

Very perceptive, very substantive. :clap:
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