Radiative Capacity of a Cylinder Stove

At the end of the day you have to give the chimney whatever heat it needs to work reliably, more on warm days and less on cold ones as not an absolute temperature it is the differential in density as opposed to a specific heat or density. A rule of thumb that does work very well is 7F difference in temp is 1% air density and a surface mounted thermometer is useless in telling what the actual temps are inside the pipe.

Here is Doug from Barnstable's Stoves with his Glenwood #50 with the extended barrel. That is one big stove!

Randy

And just think, with him being in the foreground at that camera angle, it makes the stove appear smaller, and it's still massive!

Maybe you can add a bell at the stove, any stove, you find.
Put the outlet of the stove at the bottom of the bell and with the end of the pipe a little higher then the exhaust of the bell.
Like the drawing.
You can make the bell of old oil barrels or such and it cost not a arm and a leg.
After all it is in a workshop with construction equipment not a living room.

Peter

Ehmm. the drawing didn't make it, now I am in panic.

Peter.

KingCoal wrote:

scalabro wrote:So....

20 inch pot = 10x10x3.1415 = 314 sq in.

314x27 = 8478 sq in radiative area, or 8478 /144 = 59 sq ft of radiative area.

That equates to a barrel that is 63 inches in circumference by over 11 ft long.

?

you would be better served by including the whole stove in the radiant area not just the barrel.

it's still going to be LARGE.

I figured anything attached to the hot surfaces. With the range that includes the top, sides, and bottom of the hearth end, front and back of the mantel, top and bottom of the oven shelf, inside and outside of the base skirt and legs. It all adds up to about 45 square feet of iron surface area that, to some degree, is radiating heat into the room,..... from less than a square foot area of the top of the firebed.

That's about a 64:1 ratio.

Paul

With the high ceiling comes the ability to have single wall exhaust pipe to the ceiling. Would that not extract as much heat as a 2-3 ft.extension on the barrel ?

windyhill4.2 wrote:With the high ceiling comes the ability to have single wall exhaust pipe to the ceiling. Would that not extract as much heat as a 2-3 ft.extension on the barrel ?

Dave,
If you look at stove installations back in the mid 1800's, before the days of Oaks and base heaters, they often did that. I've seen pictures and restored stores and churches where the stove is at one end of large rooms opposite where the chimney is. They connected them with long, slightly slopping lengths of single wall stove pipe, suspending by hanger wires, or rods, from the ceiling.

In later pictures it's more common to see that the stove pipes got shorter as the stove designs improved at heat extraction.

At Old Bethpage Village Restoration (1850-1860), they've documented and reused that in some of the buildings and the Manetto Hill Church.

Paul

I guess I am confused about this whole extension issue.I thought the standard cylinder stoves were far better at extracting heat than box stoves ? My 404 is running top of stove at 366*,farthermost end of first elbow is 185*,elbow just b4 going into the thimble is 100*. How can that be improved without losing draft ?These numbers will go up some when the stove is burning hotter. Please do not take this question wrong but is it possible you guys think too much ??? There are worse things that you could be doing .

Sunny Boy wrote:

windyhill4.2 wrote:With the high ceiling comes the ability to have single wall exhaust pipe to the ceiling. Would that not extract as much heat as a 2-3 ft.extension on the barrel ?

Dave,
If you look at stove installations back in the mid 1800's, before the days of Oaks and base heaters, they often did that. I've seen pictures and restored stores and churches where the stove is at one end of large rooms opposite where the chimney is. They connected them with long, slightly slopping lengths of single wall stove pipe, suspending by hanger wires, or rods, from the ceiling.

In later pictures it's more common to see that the stove pipes got shorter as the stove designs improved at heat extraction.

At Old Bethpage Village Restoration (1850-1860), they've documented and reused that in some of the buildings and the Manetto Hill Church.

Paul

Here is a photo showing an example of the long run of a stove pipe. This photo was taken in a Shaker building. I think you saw these long stove pipes more for wood stoves than for coal stoves. The temps are much cooler at the stove pipe for coal. If you want to extract more heat from coal, you would need to do it at the stove or at least very close to the stove.

Randy

Randy

windyhill4.2 wrote:I guess I am confused about this whole extension issue.I thought the standard cylinder stoves were far better at extracting heat than box stoves ? My 404 is running top of stove at 366*,farthermost end of first elbow is 185*,elbow just b4 going into the thimble is 100*. How can that be improved without losing draft ?These numbers will go up some when the stove is burning hotter. Please do not take this question wrong but is it possible you guys think too much ??? There are worse things that you could be doing .

Depends on how you measure the temps. My stove top is 425 surface the single wall pipe about 12 inches from elbow out of stove is 100 surface temp probe measuring the real exhaust temp is 310. It is about 20F right now outside. The stack is 41% less dense air in round numbers could easily cut that in half with no chance of a CO leak.

Dave, (windyhill),

A longer stove pipe will extract more heat than a short one, but it has it's limits in that being a smaller diameter, the hot gases are moving faster through it.

What Scott is talking about doing is adding/extending a "plenum" area in the top of the stove. A plenum area in this instance is usually used as a larger area to let hot gases slow down and allow them more time to transfer heat. As they lose heat they contract, get heavier and have less pressure differential with outside the stove (helps tame a stronger draft). That helps the gases move more slowly through the stove pipe too.

So yes, you could use more stove pipe to extract heat, but a barrel extension "should" do the job better for an equal area of stove pipe.

As you've learned, now that we burn coal, we have more time so some of us can spend it brainstorming ideas about coal stoves. Are you saying we have too much time on our hands and should go back to wood stoves ?

Paul

Scott, don't know if this is of any interest to you or for that matter, any other member. But as of following this I just recalled that a guy I know has an octopus furnace in his basement. I didn't examine it very closely, however I do believe the door is missing. He tells me that if anybody wants it they can have it. If you or another member are interested I could go over and get some detailed photos of the beast. Just hope it doesn't break the camera.
Jim

I did see the big "can" on the stoves,but was just wondering if that high ceiling shop would scrub enough heat off with the long exhaust pipe,without modifying the stove.The pipe could even include a turn down & then back up elbow set up to scrub even more,again it would be an easy mod,a cheap mod & one that could easily be undone with no major work. The brainstorming exercises are better than the wood stove idea .Wood stoves were made to more rapidly turn young folks into worn-out old folks .

Sunny Boy wrote:Dave, (windyhill),

A longer stove pipe will extract more heat than a short one, but it has it's limits in that being a smaller diameter, the hot gases are moving faster through it.

What Scott is talking about doing is adding/extending a "plenum" area in the top of the stove. A plenum area in this instance is usually used as a larger area to let hot gases slow down and allow them more time to transfer heat. As they lose heat they contract, get heavier and have less pressure differential with outside the stove (helps tame a stronger draft). That helps the gases move more slowly through the stove pipe too.

So yes, you could use more stove pipe to extract heat, but a barrel extension "should" do the job better for an equal area of stove pipe.

As you've learned, now that we burn coal, we have more time so some of us can spend it brainstorming ideas about coal stoves. Are you saying we have too much time on our hands and should go back to wood stoves ?

Paul

I could not have said it better myself Paul, thanks!
And JFGraham....hook me up!