Lack of Blue Ladies in 50-93

 
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Smart_Ash
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 1.0 Hitzer 50-93

Post by Smart_Ash » Sat. Jan. 31, 2015 11:07 pm

I replaced my Vigilant with a Hitzer 50-93. The main reasons for doing so was the blower and having a separate ash pan door. I also wanted a bigger stove with more horsepower for the real cold. I was surprised that I had put 100 lbs in the stove after filling the hopper. This stove will really throw some heat. Things are going pretty good. Tending this stove is really easy. Shakes down nice and the hopper is great. During the burn the coal just seems to glow. There are hardly any blues at all. With the Vigilant there were always nice blue flames during the burn. Why don't I get these with the Hitzer? Does this stove need a little over fire air? Would it be worth it to modify this stove for more air? Maybe a couple holes drilled in the side with a adjustable flap to regulate the air. What about a small gap in the door gasket? I read a post where someone had a Vigilant and they left a gap in the gasket on the top plate to allow some air in that way. I saw a video on YouTube of a guy reloading a Glenwood. He added the new coal and almost immediately closed up the stove and walked away. I assume this is possible because that stove has a ring that feeds over fire air. I leave the door open on the Hitzer to burn off the gasses. I haven't had a puff back yet. Why doesn't Hitzer make this with over fire air? Is it worth it to modify this stove and what would be the best way?


 
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Stoker6268
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Post by Stoker6268 » Sat. Jan. 31, 2015 11:55 pm

I have same stove. When I used nut I had very few blues. Heat was good so didnt care. Switched to pea and burns continues blues, more even heat and feeds better. If your heat is ok I would leave alone.

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 6:25 am

I agree. If the stove is making the heat you want, leave it alone. If you try for more blue ladies you will be burning hot and that means more clinkers and more coal used. The Mark I and II stoves I have rarely have blue ladies but they are throwing out the heat. That's what matters. Do you have a thermometer on the stove so that you call tell just how hot it's burning? Take care, Lisa

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 6:25 am

I always get the blue ladies in my HITZERS. Unless you plan on burning wood, I'd leave it as is. If you had a pre-Vigilant-II, then you know by now that running a 50-93 is a walk in the park. My first coal stove was a pre-Vigilant-II. I bought it used, and knew nothing about burning coal. What an experience.......... I don't think this site was around back then. That was back before I had my first computer. Most people did not have computers then. I did master the Vigilant on my own. Problem was, No One else could keep it going. My next coal stove was a HITZER 50-93. I remember my first tending's of the 50-93. I said to myself, "That's It". "That's all there is to tending". No more getting on my knees, and shaking, shaking, shaking, and slicing, slicing, slicing. No more daily clinker problems. Longer burn times, and massive heat, etc.. No comparison between the two stoves. If you've mastered the Vigilant, then you're having a love affair with the 50-93. Oliver
Last edited by oliver power on Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 6:38 am

Ditto on above posts:)

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 7:17 am

Different coal make a flame difference ? Does having a hopper full of coal make a difference ?

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 7:28 am

The coal in the hopper has a chance to off-gas before it even gets on the fire, you will not get the same reaction as tossing some fresh coal on the fire.


 
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Smart_Ash
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 1.0 Hitzer 50-93

Post by Smart_Ash » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 8:42 am

Thanks to this site I had really good luck with the Vigilant. I liked everything about it except for tending it. Poking, then shaking, then slicing, then shaking again to make sure I cleared all ash. The Hitzer is faster and way easier. Iam getting plenty of heat out of it for sure. I do get blue ladies at first. I make sure they are there before I close up the door tight. After a while some are still there but not like the Vigilant. Iam sure the stove was built like this at the factory for a reason. I do not plan on burning any wood in this. It should probably stay unmodified. Are all the gasses being burnt without over fire air? Adding air to the top would make blues and the fire more hot. Would this allow me to reduce primary air for the same amount of heat?

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 8:55 am

As I think Lisa was pointing out, burn rate has everything to do with the appearance of the blues. With a low slow fire there may not be any at all. With a moderate - hot fire I usually see some. I agree with many reasons posted above too, all these things contribute.

In my experimenting, I was unable to prove extra heat output with the addition of secondary air after volatile burn off of a fresh load. So in my opinion, I wouldn't modify your stove. It does already have some fixed secondary air thru the window (I believe). The important thing would be to have the draft properly set to the manufacturers specs, within -.04 to -.06 on the mano.

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 10:32 am

Try This; At tending time, Start out by emptying the ash pan from previous tending (cool ashes). Poke from top only if needed. Shake to clear ash. Fill the hopper, and forget it. You'll see lots of Blue Ladies. No need to leave the ash pan door open in order to boost fire, unless fire is really low. Low to the point you're hoping not to loose fire. The back flapper door will be open. If your bed of coals are that low / weak, don't touch your settings. Simply turn off the fan so you're not taking heat off the stove. Give the mass a chance to heat back up. If you have to leave in a hurry, and no blue ladies, turn the dial down some, and leave the fan off till you get back home. You'll have a fire, and a house. Speaking of settings; I leave my ash pan vents cracked open a little. About 1/2 moon, give or take. No need to go higher than round holes. A little air through the ash pan door vents makes for better response when back flapper door opens, as fire is not sleeping. You can open the ash pan vents more if you install a barometric damper. Some members don't use the ash pan vents at all. One last thing: If the back flapper door goes tap, tap, tap........., adjust the magnet inside the air inlet. Adjust just enough to stop tapping. Too much magnet pull will hold the flapper door closed till the stoves cools enough to pop it off the magnet. By then, the stove has cooled too much, and has to roar in order to heat mass up again. Just enough magnet to stop the continuous tapping is all you want.

 
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Smart_Ash
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 1.0 Hitzer 50-93

Post by Smart_Ash » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 11:57 am

oliver power wrote:Try This; At tending time, Start out by emptying the ash pan from previous tending (cool ashes). Poke from top only if needed. Shake to clear ash. Fill the hopper, and forget it. You'll see lots of Blue Ladies. No need to leave the ash pan door open in order to boost fire, unless fire is really low. Low to the point you're hoping not to loose fire. The back flapper door will be open. If your bed of coals are that low / weak, don't touch your settings. Simply turn off the fan so you're not taking heat off the stove. Give the mass a chance to heat back up. If you have to leave in a hurry, and no blue ladies, turn the dial down some, and leave the fan off till you get back home. You'll have a fire, and a house. Speaking of settings; I leave my ash pan vents cracked open a little. About 1/2 moon, give or take. No need to go higher than round holes. A little air through the ash pan door vents makes for better response when back flapper door opens, as fire is not sleeping. You can open the ash pan vents more if you install a barometric damper. Some members don't use the ash pan vents at all. One last thing: If the back flapper door goes tap, tap, tap........., adjust the magnet inside the air inlet. Adjust just enough to stop tapping. Too much magnet pull will hold the flapper door closed till the stoves cools enough to pop it off the magnet. By then, the stove has cooled too much, and has to roar in order to heat mass up again. Just enough magnet to stop the continuous tapping is all you want.
I tend the stove exactaly the way you described. After loading the hopper I usually keep the load door cracked a bit. I make sure I have some blues before I shut it all the way. With no over fire air I did not want to close it up right away. I try to make a little chimney down into the coal bed for a little pilot light to pop up. I have been keeping my ash pan door vents closed all they way. I did notice keeping a half moon made the flapper stop tapping. So either keep the vents open a bit or adjust the magnet.

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 12:19 pm

Smart_Ash wrote:
oliver power wrote:Try This; At tending time, Start out by emptying the ash pan from previous tending (cool ashes). Poke from top only if needed. Shake to clear ash. Fill the hopper, and forget it. You'll see lots of Blue Ladies. No need to leave the ash pan door open in order to boost fire, unless fire is really low. Low to the point you're hoping not to loose fire. The back flapper door will be open. If your bed of coals are that low / weak, don't touch your settings. Simply turn off the fan so you're not taking heat off the stove. Give the mass a chance to heat back up. If you have to leave in a hurry, and no blue ladies, turn the dial down some, and leave the fan off till you get back home. You'll have a fire, and a house. Speaking of settings; I leave my ash pan vents cracked open a little. About 1/2 moon, give or take. No need to go higher than round holes. A little air through the ash pan door vents makes for better response when back flapper door opens, as fire is not sleeping. You can open the ash pan vents more if you install a barometric damper. Some members don't use the ash pan vents at all. One last thing: If the back flapper door goes tap, tap, tap........., adjust the magnet inside the air inlet. Adjust just enough to stop tapping. Too much magnet pull will hold the flapper door closed till the stoves cools enough to pop it off the magnet. By then, the stove has cooled too much, and has to roar in order to heat mass up again. Just enough magnet to stop the continuous tapping is all you want.
I tend the stove exactaly the way you described. After loading the hopper I usually keep the load door cracked a bit. I make sure I have some blues before I shut it all the way. With no over fire air I did not want to close it up right away. I try to make a little chimney down into the coal bed for a little pilot light to pop up. I have been keeping my ash pan door vents closed all they way. I did notice keeping a half moon made the flapper stop tapping. So either keep the vents open a bit or adjust the magnet.
Sounds to me like you have a good handle on things. How long have you had your 50-93?

 
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Smart_Ash
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 1.0 Hitzer 50-93

Post by Smart_Ash » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 12:56 pm

I have had it for a couple weeks now. I have got pretty good at switching stoves this year. After taking out the Jotul, then bringing in the vigilant, and now the Hitzer. I think I'm going to keep this one for a while.

 
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Post by Scottaw » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 6:39 pm

I barely ever see blue flames. Right after a shake, and have to turn off the room lights.

Doesn't bother me, there's heat pouring off it either way.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Feb. 01, 2015 9:58 pm

Indeed SL :)


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