Help Troubleshooting a Snowblower Engine?

 
NJJoe
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Post by NJJoe » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 11:23 am

Wondering if you guys can help with this set of symptoms please?

Honda HS55 snowblower with commercial quality Honda GX engine.

The engine starts normally with fuel open and choke closed. As engine warms up, I gradually move the choke more and more to the fully open position.

The issue is when the choke is fully opened, the engine begins to run rough. Rough as in the sense that it runs in "fast cycles" as if it were slowing down and then speeding back up. It sounds to me like when an engine is running out of gasoline and not at a consistent sound or rpm. (Not sure if describing this properly)

At first, I thought the engine just wasnt warm enough so I left the choke at half position and gave it a few more minutes. Even after letting the engine warm up for more than 5 minutes additional time, when I moved the choke to fully open, the fast cycle of rough running returns.

I can get the fast cycling to go away if I refrain from opening the choke fully. Actually the engine runs perfectly and has a consistent sound and rpm when the choke is open at I estimate 75% position.

My theory based on my limited knowledge of engines:

Choke closed provides engine with a rich mixture so it can start more easily. As engine warms up, rich mixture not needed and choke can be opened (allowing more air and creating less rich mixture). My theory is when choke is fully opened, the engine is perhaps receiving too much air and creating a lean mixture. IMO, this is why it sounds the best with choke 75% open as this creates the correct fuel mixtures.

It also sounds like shop that did previous work never adjusted the carb accurately. So should I be looking for ways to correct this overly lean condition? Anything to watch out for (keep me from messing up my engine)?

Can you see anything wrong with running engine under load (snowblowing) with choke set at 75% position?


 
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Post by coaledsweat » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 11:33 am

Slowing and speeding up may just be the governor, does it stall or run hard when put under a snow load? A little choke would be ok if it isn't chuffing dark smoke or the smell of gasoline doesn't kill you. If you know which screw is the high speed jet, open the throttle all the way and adjust the screw so the engine runs at it's highest/smoothest speed.

 
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Post by NJJoe » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 11:44 am

coaledsweat wrote:Slowing and speeding up may just be the governor, does it stall or run hard when put under a snow load? A little choke would be ok if it isn't chuffing dark smoke or the smell of gasoline doesn't kill you. If you know which screw is the high speed jet, open the throttle all the way and adjust the screw so the engine runs at it's highest/smoothest speed.
No stalling, It just sounds like garbage with choke all the way open. When under load, the situation improves slightly but Im concerned with running under load sounding like that. Im worried that this is a lean condition and trying to correct this.

Alrite so at least until I can get this fixed and research the proper way to do it, running with the choke slightly closed will at least make the engine sound like it is running smooth.

 
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Post by waldo lemieux » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 11:50 am

Agent Windy Hill come in ,over,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Dave???

 
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Post by Sting » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 11:57 am

The choke on snow blower engine chokes have detentes of clicky spots' so the choke can me used to vary the needs vs the weather your operating in

the Choke on a snow blower is meant to be used in other than the full open- or full closed position and if need be it can be run safely - even significantly closed

Kind Regards
Sting

 
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Post by lzaharis » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 5:10 pm

NJJoe wrote:Wondering if you guys can help with this set of symptoms please?

Honda HS55 snowblower with commercial quality Honda GX engine.

The engine starts normally with fuel open and choke closed. As engine warms up, I gradually move the choke more and more to the fully open position.

The issue is when the choke is fully opened, the engine begins to run rough. Rough as in the sense that it runs in "fast cycles" as if it were slowing down and then speeding back up. It sounds to me like when an engine is running out of gasoline and not at a consistent sound or rpm. (Not sure if describing this properly)

At first, I thought the engine just wasnt warm enough so I left the choke at half position and gave it a few more minutes. Even after letting the engine warm up for more than 5 minutes additional time, when I moved the choke to fully open, the fast cycle of rough running returns.

I can get the fast cycling to go away if I refrain from opening the choke fully. Actually the engine runs perfectly and has a consistent sound and rpm when the choke is open at I estimate 75% position.

My theory based on my limited knowledge of engines:

Choke closed provides engine with a rich mixture so it can start more easily. As engine warms up, rich mixture not needed and choke can be opened (allowing more air and creating less rich mixture). My theory is when choke is fully opened, the engine is perhaps receiving too much air and creating a lean mixture. IMO, this is why it sounds the best with choke 75% open as this creates the correct fuel mixtures.

It also sounds like shop that did previous work never adjusted the carb accurately. So should I be looking for ways to correct this overly lean condition? Anything to watch out for (keep me from messing up my engine)?

Can you see anything wrong with running engine under load (snowblowing) with choke set at 75% position?
=================================================================================================

Since I was the proud owner of a GX340 on a commercial log splitter-
1. Have you drained the fuel bowl?,

2. looked inside the tank to see how much crap there is around
upright fuel screen? Is the screen basket still in place?

More than likely you have:
1. a fuel issue with dirty fuel
2.water in the fuel bowl
3. fouled plug/old plug/cracked plug that heats up and makes a poor spark>
4. How old is the ignition coil on this engine? Does it have an air filter?

Is the ignition coil at the top dead center on these like the Briggs engines?
a.These coils go bad at the most inconvenient times/ mice love to chew on the wire covers
and it shorts them out/ cause poor ignition/low spark

I always ran the fuel out of the GX340 closed the choke restated it and ran it
until the gas was consumed to eliminate even more fuel from being in the bowl

Do the simple thing first, drain the fuel bowl, buy a new plug for it making
sure you take the old one with you to the parts store because you have to
have to have the same heat range in the plug, be sure to gap it, put in fresh
high octane gas 93 without ethanol if possible and add sea foam to the fresh
gas and then try it.

It could be as simple as water in the fuel bowl-lets hope anyway.

 
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Post by D-frost » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 5:40 pm

Joe,
If your near Nashua, you can buy aviation fuel from xfinity aviation on Perimeter Rd. at the airport. It does not have ethanol in it-$5.20/gal., cash. It works great.
Cheers


 
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Post by coalder » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 5:50 pm

I frequently hang out with a mechanic buddy that works on everything from bulldozers to blenders. He is 72 yrs old going in 17!! I highly suspect the problem to be fuel. Hondas are bullet proof! Drain all gas from tank and carb and start over. My buddy tells me that most, if not all engine hiccups are fuel related due to ethanol. I have several pieces of pwr equipment with my business and whenever a problem arises I just drain everything and start from there. This will be a starting point. hope this helps.
Jim

 
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Post by cabinover » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 6:17 pm

Just a warning concerning the fuel bowl and draining it via the plug. IIRC that plug also holds the fuel bowl to the carb base. Do your best not to disturb that bowl/carb base joint. If the bowl comes off do yourself a favor and find a new oring for it. Some are square and some are round. You'll be happy you did.

As for the running problem, either water as noted or crap in the main jet. Not an issue to run partial choke but never seen it needed on a Honda.

 
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Post by Starting Out » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 6:20 pm

Sounds like an ethanol problem. If you can get a bottle of Startron, mix some of it with good gas. Get rid of all the old gas you have . Then every time you run it and are done with it, shut off the gas and let the engine run until it runs out of fuel. I had the same problem with my scooter. I took the carb apart and cleaned it and now only non ethanol gas. Do this with all your small engines.

 
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Post by coalder » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 6:46 pm

If ethanol gas is left untreated for over six months "IT IS ROTTEN".
Jim

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 9:39 pm

Definitely fuel/carb issue,has nothing to do with the spark plug.Honda usually have a drain plug on the carb bowl that is just a drain not a bowl "nut".We have found that some Honda engines need to run on choke when operating in cold temps. Honda engines generally are lean running engines,that is why they use so little gas. You do have the "heat box" all installed properly ? Snow blower engines all have the heat box to aid fuel atomization & need it to be all on there for the engine to run properly.Do not install an air filter in that box either,no air filter for snow blower engines. As for adjusting the carb........... you most likely won't find any adjustment screws.

 
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Mon. Feb. 02, 2015 11:20 pm

Agree with all about the gas and ethanol (=ruins everything crap) problems. I've had to recently clean and/or rebuild every small engine carb we have because of this crap :mad: :blowup:

But guess it's here to stay. Everyone knows the way to become fuel-supplier-independent is to taint all your fuel so it can't be stored more than 6 months :roll:

Me and Berryman's have become frequent hangout buddies. LOL

Here is what I'd do:

Change air filter and plug (just about everyone neglects these small engines and it is only a few dollars), drain tank (try a line, I had to turn a water pump upside down and shake it recently), drain carb completely, add a heavy amount of Seafoam to the tank (about 50-50, only add a little total fuel, preferably high octane no ethanol) , run it about a couple of minutes.

You may want to leave carb bowl a bit loose until it overflows with gas from tank then tighten it.

Hopefully this will be enough to clean it. Keep using the new gas and heavy seafoam for a tank or two. Otherwise, pull carb and clean it and all jets thoroughly. Replace the gaskets.

One more VERY IMPORTANT thing- with engine off and level, check the oil! If it is over full, thin, or smells at all like gas, it is time to rebuild carb with new float valve. Another wonderful symptom of dip-shyt regulators doing really stupid things to contaminate our fuel supply!

Did I mention the new and improved ethanol-poisoned gas is really a dumb and irresponsible thing for gov't to inflict on its subjects?

The above should get you back up and running with minimal hassle. If you keep going without fixing it, eventually it will quit, no matter how many times you kick it and insult its ancestry, LOL.

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Feb. 03, 2015 6:40 am

Pardon me for yelling, there is NO AIR FILTER on a snowblower !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The spark plug is not the problem !!!!!!!!! The problem is fuel/ carb related !! There is no reason to leave the bowl loose for the carb to fill with gas,the carb is vented. If fuel comes in contact with the bowl gasket when the bowl is not tight ,the gasket will swell !! There is no rebuild kit for honda carbs,you have to buy each independent part. Many honda carbs are so low priced that I don't even fool with cleaning them. Swap & go !!!!!!!!!!

 
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Post by NJJoe » Tue. Feb. 03, 2015 8:38 am

Ok here are some more facts. This snowblower was sitting in my dads basement for almost 10 years without any operation. Tires had gone flat, stale decade old gas in the tank and crankcase full of sludgy oil. Took it to a power equipment shop (Stills in Manchester if anyone recognizes it). Thorough cleaning and replaced the carb. This was in November. I have used the snowblower a total of 5 times and this is really starting to piss me off. It ran great for the first three times and then the 4th I started noticing the aforementioned symptoms. last night was the 5th time I used it since the shop and it was even worse with the engine pinging like crazy under hard load.

This is supposed to be a new carb and engine thoroughly cleaned. Air filter, spark plug replaced too. Im starting to get mad at the shop but don't know if my anger is justified. Im going to give them a call this afternoon and ask them what they think and express my dissatisfaction with a snowblower that is running like *censored* not even 5 uses since a service. Of course, if the issue is something unrelated to the work they did, then I will understand. But if not id like the shop to give me my satisfaction. BTW, this is a 5.5 HP Honda GX 140 engine. The fuel in the tank is less than a month old. Any other suggestions?

Thanks again, Joe


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