Electronic Voting Machines

stockingfull wrote:Back to the future: voters will vote a paper ballot

What will the tree hugger's say

spc wrote:

stockingfull wrote:Back to the future: voters will vote a paper ballot

What will the tree hugger's say

... that we're way ahead if we save a single Supreme Court case?

Devil5052 wrote:

spc wrote:I'm going to guess that you thought Algore won the 2000 election.

He did infact win the popular vote. Popular vote.....You know...who the American People actualy wanted as President. (first time in the history of this country that a Presidential candidate won the popular vote but didn't become President.......& just look how wonderful things have turned out with GW)

Are you saying we should amend article two of the United States Constitution?

spc wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:

spc wrote:I'm going to guess that you thought Algore won the 2000 election.

He did infact win the popular vote. Popular vote.....You know...who the American People actualy wanted as President. (first time in the history of this country that a Presidential candidate won the popular vote but didn't become President.......& just look how wonderful things have turned out with GW)

Are you saying we should amend article two of the United States Constitution?

I'd have to look it up as I haven't committed the Constitution to memory but if article 2 establishes the Electoral College then yes, it has long ago outlived its uefulness & should be retired in favor of direct Popular vote. With the access to information now available to every citizen (via TV, internet, newspapers etc) there is no longer a need to "filter" the people's choice for elected officials.

spc wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:

spc wrote:I'm going to guess that you thought Algore won the 2000 election.

He did infact win the popular vote. Popular vote.....You know...who the American People actualy wanted as President. (first time in the history of this country that a Presidential candidate won the popular vote but didn't become President.......& just look how wonderful things have turned out with GW)

Are you saying we should amend article two of the United States Constitution?

Well, that's not my argument. My argument is that all the "textualist"/"federalist"/"strict constructionist"/"states' rights" members on the Supreme Court all of a sudden found the Supremacy Clause in the Constitution and applied it to obtain the political outcome they wanted in a situation where they otherwise would have clearly ruled to the contrary. The overruled the Florida Supreme Court in a Florida State election matter and they did so in a manner so outrageous that they themselves explicitly said in the Bush v. Gore opinion that it should have no precedental value.

Since the topic is now Electronic Voting Machines, I see no reason why all voting is not done via the internet. (Security could be easily controled just as it is when people spend Thousands of dollars securely buying things online)
We all know it's coming, so why not speed it up?

[quote="stockingfullWell, that's not my argument. My argument is that all the "textualist"/"federalist"/"strict constructionist"/"states' rights" members on the Supreme Court all of a sudden found the Supremacy Clause in the Constitution and applied it to obtain the political outcome they wanted in a situation where they otherwise would have clearly ruled to the contrary. The intervened in a Florida State election matter and they did so in a manner so outrageous that they themselves explicitly said in the Bush v. Gore opinion that it should have no precedental value.[/quote][/quote]


Really? You feel the Electoral College is still beneficial in this day & age?

[scrubbed due to problems with quoting syntax]

Devil5052 wrote:[quote="stockingfullWell, that's not my argument. My argument is that all the "textualist"/"federalist"/"strict constructionist"/"states' rights" members on the Supreme Court all of a sudden found the Supremacy Clause in the Constitution and applied it to obtain the political outcome they wanted in a situation where they otherwise would have clearly ruled to the contrary. The intervened in a Florida State election matter and they did so in a manner so outrageous that they themselves explicitly said in the Bush v. Gore opinion that it should have no precedental value.

[/quote]


Really? You feel the Electoral College is still beneficial in this day & age?[/quote]

That's an open question worthy of vigorous debate. But it's clear the EC existed in 2000 (and still) and, as such, governs the election of our President until we have changed it.

Here's the nightmare in a totally popular election: suppose the vote count is 537 votes over the entire country. Now you've got 50 states, thousands of election districts, and millions of voting machines, of all different kinds. Now what?

stockingfull wrote:Here's the nightmare in a totally popular election: suppose the vote count is 537 votes over the entire country. Now you've got 50 states, thousands of election districts, and millions of voting machines, of all different kinds. Now what?

You are scaring me, we agree twice in one night

Here's the nightmare in a totally popular election: suppose the vote count is 537 votes over the entire country. Now you've got 50 states, thousands of election districts, and millions of voting machines, of all different kinds. Now what?[/quote]


There is no such thing as a perfect or foolproof system but I think whoever can prove that he/she had a majority of the American people desiring them for office, should win. (regardless of how slim that majority is) After all, noone complains when they lose a baseball game by only one run....Dems Da Rules.

Devil5052 wrote:
Actually, second; Rutherford B. Hayes in, IIRC, 1876, was the first.

Actually third, in 1888 Harrison over Cleveland.

Devil5052 wrote:

spc wrote:

stockingfull wrote:Very perceptive, very substantive.

I'm going to guess that you thought Algore won the 2000 election.

He did infact win the popular vote. Popular vote.....You know...who the American People actualy wanted as President. (first time in the history of this country that a Presidential candidate won the popular vote but didn't become President.......& just look how wonderful things have turned out with GW)

Presidents are not elected by popular vote. You don't live in a democracy, its a Republic. The Electoral college is a way for the state itself to vote as opposed to its citizens, its about states rights. If you understand the reasoning for it you can begin to appreciate it.

coaledsweat wrote:[

Presidents are not elected by popular vote. You don't live in a democracy, its a Republic. The Electoral college is a way for the state itself to vote as opposed to its citizens, its about states rights. If you understand the reasoning for it you can begin to appreciate it.

I understand the concept....... I just disagree with it & think it's a relic that needs to be retired.
(Intelligent people could spend their lives debating which is better: A Republic or a pure Democracy & I am to old begin that journey!)

stockingfull wrote:I've always liked the lever-type "Jamestown" machines we've had here in NY for a very long time. Something comforting knowing that a cam is turning a mechanical tumbler when you pull the lever.

I don't know the name of the ones our county had but they were green, had lever and probably weighed 500lbs. each if not more. I think a few of them went to the Smithsonian because they were so well kept. I'm not against electronic voting however it's been rushed, there just isn't enough transparency and as mentioned there are security issues that have not been resolved. The video from youtube shows an enormous hole. These problems can all be taken care of but I think what we need first and foremost is open source code code running on the same machines across the entire nation with some form of paper backup.

Open source is a double edged sword but at least anyone will be able to look at it and say "Hey that's not right..." As far as the machines they should be manufactured by the government with oversight by a committee of computer security experts chosen from both parties or by some other means that allows for multiple voices of dissent. Voting is far too important to allow anyone entity say "Trust us"...