Struggling and Frustrated

Well its been a while since I been on due to a new child arriving and thinking I figured out this hard coal burning. Well I was wrong.

My situation. For the last three winters I was burning in my D.S. Basement #4 roughly 70lbs of coal a day without a MPD or BARO. I had just a straight pipe out of the stove to my chimney. I was filling it up in the morning and evening with roughly 12 hr shake downs. I was happy with this process but figured I could get a better burn with adding a barometric damper. Now this is the problem.

I put the damper on early fall and noticed not much of a change until last week. My consumption, from last year, has increased to burning 100lbs a day. The only thing I changed has been the adding of this damper. I am still running the same setting as the previous three years. Is this normal to see an increase? I thought they were for to help make the stove more efficient.

I'm confused and struggling with a solution. I guess I'm looking at taking the damper off and going back to the straight pipe.

You can easily eliminate the baro as the problem by covering the opening with aluminum foil to try without it having any effect.

The baro is to tame excessive draft; with a thermostat on the stove it may not be of much use. I don't think it is the cause of burning 30 pounds of coal more per day.

I actually just did cover it with foil this evening around 3. I"m curious if this is going to help. The damper is the only change.

Cover the baro for now, next year leave the baro out and put in a MPD. With the thermostat on the stove, they really don't need a baro and seem to work well with the MPD

As for using more coal, Where are you located and what are you heating?

Eric

Baro causing added coal consumption? Doesn't make sense in my book. The excessive cold recently would have something to do with it though.. or there is something else causing it that remains to be seen.

Just my nickels worth of two cents..

Coalfire and franco are on point, I can only vouch for a stove with a bi-metal flapper no baro required...and congrat's on the baby, are you talking funny still

Talking funny is an understatement. Between a new job, college, and my little man I'm running on fumes but I wouldn't change it for anything. I will keep everyone posted on the covering of the baro with AL.

Talking funny is an understatement. Between a new job, college, and my little man I'm running on fumes but I wouldn't change it for anything. I will keep everyone posted on the covering of the baro with AL.

Did you switch coal brands? The quality and BTU content of the coal you burn can vary even within the same brand.

I agree basement #4 needs only coal, love and a MPD...
Had a baro on mine and removed it...
Be careful my #4 was the direct cause for now having 3 kids under 3...
Would not have it any other way either...

I recently purchased a nice draft gauge, and thought I'd play with it. So, I installed a barometric damper in the pipe of my HITZER (for experimental purposes only). Yes, As I've said all along, it's Not Needed on the HITZER. The HITZER is going through more coal, with less performance. I'm thinking a barometric damper is not needed with any natural draft stove with bi-metallic thermostat. Especially if it has an internal hopper. You need a stronger draft in order to pull air through the grates, around the hopper (and or baffle), and out the exhaust. In the process, the mass of the stove needs to heat up enough to close the bi-metallic thermostat door. Once the flapper door is closed, the heat from a hot glowing bed of coal is trapped within the stove, and is drawn off through heat exchanger. With a barometric damper in the stove pipe, you are creating a weak draft. The weak draft can not get the coal bed hot enough to heat the mass, and close the bi-metallic thermostat flapper. I'm guessing it's worse on a stove with over fire air, as the D.S. has. Over fire air would be pulled easier, as it has less resistance. What happens is; Because the draft is weak, the bi-metallic flapper door takes a long time to close, if it closes at all (depends on settings). Meanwhile, the heat is continuously going out the stack, and not into the room. You open the stove up more, in order to produce more heat. But, until that flapper door closes, all you have is more heat going out the stack (Kind of like having a slow leak in the toilet valve. When the water bill comes, way more water went down the drain, resulting in big water bill). No doubt, the barometric damper does create a steadier draft. However, on cold windy nights, I believe a stove with bi-metallic thermostat needs wind gusts in order to heat the mass of stove quicker. The flapper door closes sooner, and more heat transfers into room. My conclusion: A stove with bi-metallic thermostat likes all the draft it can get, as fast as it can get it, when the flapper opens. A barometric damper weakens the draft, and the stove doesn't like a weak draft. I'm still experimenting. These are my findings so far.

oliver power wrote:I recently purchased a nice draft gauge, and thought I'd play with it. So, I installed a barometric damper in the pipe of my HITZER (for experimental purposes only). Yes, As I've said all along, it's Not Needed on the HITZER. The HITZER is going through more coal, and less performance. I'm thinking a barometric damper is not needed with any natural draft stove with bi-metallic thermostat. Especially if it has an internal hopper. You need a stronger draft in order to pull air through the grates, around the hopper (and or baffle), and out the exhaust. In the process, the mass of the stove needs to heat up enough to close the bi-metallic thermostat door. Once the flapper door is closed, the heat from a hot glowing bed of coal is trapped in the stove, and is drawn off through heat exchanger. With a barometric damper in the stove pipe, you are creating a weak draft. The weak draft can not get the coal bed hot enough to heat the mass, and close the bi-metallic thermostat flapper. I'm guessing it's worse on a stove with over fire air, as the D.S. has. Over fire air would be pulled easier, as it has less resistance. What happens is; Because the draft is weak, the bi-metallic flapper door takes a long time to close, if it closes at all (depends on settings). Meanwhile, the heat is continuously going out the stack, and not into the room. You open the stove up more, in order to produce more heat. But, until that flapper door closes, all you have is more heat going out the stack (Kind of like having a slow leak in the toilet valve. When the water bill comes, way more water went down the drain, resulting in big water bill). No doubt, the barometric damper does create a steadier draft. However, on cold windy nights, I believe a stove with bi-metallic thermostat needs wind gusts in order to heat the mass of stove quicker. The flapper door closes sooner, and more heat transfers into room. I'm still experimenting. These are my findings so far.

Excellent report OP! A well written explanation of the use of a baro with a thermostatic-intake damper design stove.
The thermostatic flapper is the 'tender' of the stove while the human is away, without the thermostatic flapper, a baro will help control excess draft [heat from the coal] while the human stove tender is away or asleep, but the Thermostatic intake damper is a much better way to do it. Too bad it is so difficult to 'add' one to a stove. A baro is just an easy modification to the flue pipes.
A baro is to control excess draft which can cause much of the heat to go up the chimney, and to burn up a load of coal much too fast. The thermostatic flapper controlling the air to the fire does the same job, but from the intake side of the fire, not the exhaust.
Your conclusion that the Baro just creates a leak into the chimney which is not needed with a Hitzer or similar stove that has the thermostatic flapper air intake system makes total sense.
A Baro is a needed item on some stoves and chimney combinations, but with a Hitzer that has the thermostat flapper a baro would be detrimental.

Greg L.

So after reading this diagnosis a couple times, I've come to the conclusion that during the shoulder months, when my draft is marginal (-.01 to -.03 with my exterior block chimney) one of these awesome stoves with the fancy bi metallic regulator and hopper is going to consume a 1/3 MORE coal than a stove without them? Really... Hmmm that would mean burning 40 pounds instead of 30.. Everyday..

That alone would send me running to Home Depot for a US Stove product..

Naww,Big Lightning ! Just another Episode of getting to know Your Coal Burnin' Animal's Physics ! I'm thinking that it also wouldn't be a bad idea to check the sealing function of all the door gaskets after 3 years. DS had some gasket application trouble for a while there,and it wouldn't hurt to make sure there's no other air gettin' admitted to that Hotbox.

Lightning wrote:So after reading this diagnosis a couple times, I've come to the conclusion that during the shoulder months, when my draft is marginal (-.01 to -.03 with my exterior block chimney) one of these awesome stoves with the fancy bi metallic regulator and hopper is going to consume a 1/3 MORE coal than a stove without them? Really... Hmmm that would mean burning 40 pounds instead of 30.. Everyday..

That alone would send me running to Home Depot for a US Stove product..

Simply turn down the dial for room comfort. It's all taken care of for you .