Cracked Top

 
Belgianburner
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 713
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Post by Belgianburner » Wed. Mar. 04, 2015 6:52 am

All Euroburners welcome, Joe. And if the OP ever returns, he knows what Victories are...he used to burn a 700 before the F-B.

Yes, nice collection, Franco; how was the heat output from those old-timers compared to the F-B's? I have a Columbian Oak (Keely) pot belly in my shop I used to burn wood in. I have all the parts, but it needs a new barrel back. Anyone looking for a project?

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Mar. 04, 2015 9:53 am

Belgianburner wrote:Yes, nice collection, Franco; how was the heat output from those old-timers compared to the F-B's?
The Franco Belge is best at heat distribution and quick tending. Hard to beat efficiency. Needs tending 3 times a day but has large ash pan. Would not install in other than an easy drafting chimney.

The Glenwood has the best grate and fire pot and very easy drafting and pretty clean burning wood. Very clean tending, well built. Beyond about 30 pounds a day stack temperature begins to climb higher than I would like . It does not have the back pipe which would lower that. I think a baffle would improve heating the top of the stove by better directing the flue gas.

The Colombian Oak had sloppy air intakes and unlined fire pot which made low output poor. Too much slop between grate elements.

Heat output is only part of what makes a good stove. Efficiency of burn, easy tending, clean tending, looks that please you, and maybe a nice fire view are all desireable. Different stoves seem to be best at only some of these things.

The V C Vigilant is easy drafting and has low stack temperature and a good range of output. I think fire pot is excellent for even burn, but it is messier than other stoves to tend and the ash pan could be bigger.

 
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yermanjf
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Post by yermanjf » Sat. Mar. 07, 2015 3:50 pm

Well Belgian burner, I did not get lost even though cracked stove was pretty far up in the hills south of Lyons PA. The crack was pretty severe running 1/2 the way around the top plate where it sits on the firebox. I passed but the add is gone so I suspect someone bought it.

My 10-275 is still working but it is at the end of it's life. The heat exchangers in the back are warped and cracked, it's also starting to crack down the front I do have some parts (grates, firebox, hopper, backplate) for the 10-275 if someone is interested.

We also had a victory prior to the 10-275. I remember it being harder to keep lit than the 10-275.

I also got my answer on the BTU at 25000. I think we are going to put in a gas direct vent and wanted to compare the btu's. Coal was fun for these last 25 years but I'm not sure how the heck to get a used coal burner home and installed. I don't have a truck, I do have a finicky back, and my friends are all professional types who don't cotton lifting 300# while I stand there directing.

If you have ideas I'm all ears. If there are none I'll end up paying the local shop to install something new.

I'd rather buy a gas burner with the direct vent pipng. It will cost me but I suspect it will also last for the rest of my time in Macungie pa.

thanks for all the advice.


 
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JerseyCoal
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Post by JerseyCoal » Sat. Mar. 07, 2015 5:28 pm

I think I have a potential "fix" for the inevitably deformed lower hopper plate on the Franco-Belge stoves.

Years ago when I purchased two used stoves from which to construct one good stove, I noticed that the lower hopper plate on one of the stoves was warped a bit, but in the opposite direction. To the best of my recollection, here's what the prior owner did to fix his hopper:

He somehow stuck the lower hopper plate in the stove backwards and then put a wedge of some sort in the stove which pressed firmly on the hopper plate, in the direction that would remove the warp. A series of hardwood fires were built and, between each fire, additional pressure was set against the hopper until it reduced the deformity.

The upper and lower hopper plates do not match exactly but, they do the job.

Good luck. I hope this helps.

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Mar. 07, 2015 7:11 pm

yermanjf wrote: I think we are going to put in a gas direct vent and wanted to compare the btu's. Coal was fun for these last 25 years but I'm not sure how the heck to get a used coal burner home and installed. I don't have a truck, I do have a finicky back, and my friends are all professional types who don't cotton lifting 300# while I stand there directing.
thanks for all the advice.
Sorry to hear this, but I can understand. There is some work involved burning coal, (as you already know), compared to the electric counterparts, but everyone has their own priorities. Thanx for popping in, and with 25 years experience burning black rock, I'm sure you have some advice for us newbies in the future. Don't be a stranger to NEPA. Good luck to you. :)

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Mar. 07, 2015 7:18 pm

JerseyCoal wrote:I think I have a potential "fix" for the inevitably deformed lower hopper plate on the Franco-Belge stoves.
He somehow stuck the lower hopper plate in the stove backwards and then put a wedge of some sort in the stove which pressed firmly on the hopper plate, in the direction that would remove the warp. A series of hardwood fires were built and, between each fire, additional pressure was set against the hopper until it reduced the deformity. I hope this helps.
Because of the same issues with the Surdiac, I often wondered about taking the distortion out of its/my hopper. Rather than go through the time and effort of "slowly" tweaking it with wedges, would it be feasible to take a rose-bud, get the bottom distorted area red hot, and put some type of hydraulic porta-power in the mouth, and try and slowly force it back open? Not sure how forgiving cast iron is to this. I have an extra hopper in my shed, that's pretty bad. Maybe I'll try an experiment with it.


 
Belgianburner
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Post by Belgianburner » Sun. Mar. 08, 2015 8:09 am

Yermanjf, at least you didn't fall prey to a c-list set up, where the seller insists on cash for the item, and then mugs you for it!

If your mind is made up on switching to gas, I won't debate your decision, but you must have had some interest in staying with coal if you drove that far to look at a replacement stove. I'm curious why you wouldn't check out that 10-1475 in Slatington (see JerseyCoal's avatar photo) for $225.? Innerds are only a year old. I have a bad back too, but after you pop off the doors and pull all inner castings out, they're really not that bad for a stove. And I moved mine in the back of my small station wagon. Lean her against bumper, lift by legs and slide her in....cakewalk. But stairs can make for a bad day.

As you may have read from my posts, I'm moving on from my 10-275 as well, but if I could find a better hopper for it, it would perhaps serve someone else for many more years. I'd suspect yours isn't going to be very straight after all that overfiring (that's why mine is deformed). How's the glass?

I did read about someone getting theirs back in shape from cherry-red "persuasion sessions," but I'd be scared of cracking the front or back of the stove in JerseyCoal's "in-stove" method. Also, the hopper edge has a rolled lip that fits into the notches of the supports, so how would you put it in backwards?

I read in one of franco's posts that he had never seen a casting that thick warp...it doesn't seem likely, but it's evidently common.

Did everyone change your clocks? DST comes early.

 
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JerseyCoal
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Post by JerseyCoal » Sun. Mar. 08, 2015 8:32 pm

Responding to joeQ:

When I consider how the deformity got there in the first place, I am tempted to follow the same procedure.

The lower hopper is exposed to high heat and the weight of coal in the hopper over a long period of time. The distortion occurred without cracking the metal, in my uneducated opinion, because it happened gradually.

I would opt for the slower, gradual method so as to not unduly stress the metal. Perhaps a fellow who welds and is familiar with how metal behaves under stress can enlighten us.

 
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yermanjf
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Post by yermanjf » Tue. Mar. 10, 2015 6:15 pm

Thanks for the compliment but
I have learned not to claim expertise
as it's the fastest way to show myself a
Damn Fool.

The cracked stove was only 15-20 min drive
Slatington is twice that. So it was worth
A look. At the time I was discussing hiring
A local guy with a pickup to move the stove,
Take mine out, and carry new one in.
Since they charge for drive time slatington
Cost adds up.

If I could find a really local used franco belge
stove I'll stick With coal until it wears out.
IMHO The franco b's work great.

If I have to go new I'll switch to gas.

Jfyiii

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Tue. Mar. 10, 2015 7:06 pm

JerseyCoal wrote:Responding to joeQ:
When I consider how the deformity got there in the first place, I am tempted to follow the same procedure.
The lower hopper is exposed to high heat and the weight of coal in the hopper over a long period of time. The distortion occurred without cracking the metal, in my uneducated opinion, because it happened gradually.
I would opt for the slower, gradual method so as to not unduly stress the metal. Perhaps a fellow who welds and is familiar with how metal behaves under stress can enlighten us.
Well JC, I have never seen my hopper glow, and know if I put a torch to it, I can get it red. I have a really bad hopper in my shed, and I mentioned above about experimenting with it. I need to get my cylinders refueled, so when I do that, and can get to my shed, (which is buried in snow right now) I might try and see how forgiving they are. I'm thinkin of making some sort of divider or wedge, to put at the mouth of the hopper. Stay tuned.

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