U.S. Healthcare

Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:49 am

traderfjp wrote:Maybe if we put caps on how much you can sue practicioners the cost of healthcare would go down. Frivilous lawsuits clog our courts and is a drain on everyone's pocketbooks.


Certainly part of the problem but its not the whole problem. My mother is OB nurse and had to go through not one but two trials where the physician was being sued. She's helped in the birth of over tens of thousands of babiesin a career that has spanned over 30 years, was part of group of nurses that implemented child birthing classes at Nesbitt decades ago and still gives them for General hospital. if you had a kid in in the last 3 decades in the Wyoming Valley there is excellent chance you meant Mom especially if it was in the last ten years or so as you she does the classes full time in addition to her regular nursing duties. :D

After both those trials she was ready to give it up and I think it's safe to say if she has to go through another one she will. The same goes for the doctors, a lot OB doctors won't even do high risk pregnancies anymore specifically because of large amount of lawsuits..
Richard S.
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:32 am

The problem isn't that the US and other developed nations are under someone else on the list. The problem is that the developed nations think that they must be first on the list. That's what drives health care costs up and reduces the open market availablity to the poor.

The problem is the list.
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: spc On: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:09 pm

"Freedom Means Responsibility"
"Why do we think we are helping adult consumers by taking away their options? We don’t take away cars because we don’t like some people speeding. We allow state lotteries despite knowing some people are betting their grocery money. Everyone is exposed to economic risks of some kind. But we don’t operate mindlessly in trying to smooth out every theoretical wrinkle in life."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 5086518279
spc
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:39 pm

But most states do require liability insurance in order to register a vehicle. That's so the expense which may result from an unplanned event isn't transferred to people who didn't choose to take that risk. Same public interest in not having to pay for the uninsured in hospital emergency rooms. I think that's essentially what your boy Mitt did about mandating health care insurance in Massachusetts.

By contrast, in most states, you're not required to have insurance on your home. Unless your mortgage company requires it by your mortgage contract, it's your choice to go without insurance and risk bearing the loss if it burns to the ground -- providing you own it free and clear. And that's the crux of it: when the public may have to bear the expense, the state has an interest in exercising some level of control.
stockingfull
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: gaw On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:23 am

stockingfull wrote:But most states do require liability insurance in order to register a vehicle. That's so the expense which may result from an unplanned event isn't transferred to people who didn't choose to take that risk. Same public interest in not having to pay for the uninsured in hospital emergency rooms. I think that's essentially what your boy Mitt did about mandating health care insurance in Massachusetts.

By contrast, in most states, you're not required to have insurance on your home. Unless your mortgage company requires it by your mortgage contract, it's your choice to go without insurance and risk bearing the loss if it burns to the ground -- providing you own it free and clear. And that's the crux of it: when the public may have to bear the expense, the state has an interest in exercising some level of control.

We could always say "no way to pay, no service" and I guess you would be left to suffer or die. We need auto insurance to cover the damages we may do to others on the public roads. We don't need insurance to drive on our private land, or a license for that matter. The government could pass a law tomorrow that outlaws employer paid health insurance and mandates everyone to buy health insurance and then say "see we fixed it" If it were that easy! Maybe it is they are going to make the sun go down an hour later starting Sunday. How's that for government in action.

In the end I fear our malevolent government will impose a system that we will not like any more than the one we have. Look it up, even the French are complaining along with everyone else. It is a very complicated subject.

This is why I drink.
gaw
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:35 am

The government would probably impose another tax and call it a health care tax. It would be 10-12% of your salary. If Social Security is going backrupt how can we afford to provide medical care for the masses. I would love to have medical care for all but we have so many other problems that we need to solve first so the country can afford such a plan. It's like putting in a hot tub when your house has a leaky rook which could comprimise the structural integrity of the home.
traderfjp
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:05 pm

The two big fallacies are that the gubment can't do this and that it will necessarily be more expensive.

Neither holds water. I'll bet you can't find a Congressman, Republican or Democrat, who's opted out of the government health care plan provided to them and instead bought private health insurance. Anybody want to take that bet?

And sorry, boyz, but taking insurance company profits out of the system will not make it more expensive; the same level of service will instead necessarily be cheaper. Duh.
stockingfull
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: Ed.A On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:42 pm

stockingfull wrote:The two big fallacies are that the gubment can't do this and that it will necessarily be more expensive.

Neither holds water. I'll bet you can't find a Congressman, Republican or Democrat, who's opted out of the government health care plan provided to them and instead bought private health insurance. Anybody want to take that bet?

And sorry, boyz, but taking insurance company profits out of the system will not make it more expensive; the same level of service will instead necessarily be cheaper. Duh.


Somehow I doubt socialized medicine will be good or cheap. England and Canada have done the leg work for us, you'd think the idiots talking about bringing it here would learn a lesson or two....oh that's right, we're talking about people whose campaign staffers have Che Guevara posters and the other believes the GooBerment should be raising our children rather than the parents.
Ed.A
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:55 pm

stockingfull wrote:The two big fallacies are that the gubment can't do this and that it will necessarily be more expensive.


Name one public program or agency where waste and incompetence hasn't been problem at some point in time.

Can you say welfare? FEMA?


stockingfull wrote:Neither holds water. I'll bet you can't find a Congressman, Republican or Democrat, who's opted out of the government health care plan provided to them and instead bought private health insurance. Anybody want to take that bet?
.


Hmmm on one hand they can have the insurance paid for or pay for it themselves... tough choice there. Duh

I have very simple solution to this problem, mandate that the insurance companies must provide plans to everyone at the same price. They could for example offer different levels of coverage but they have to offer these plans to everyone at the same price. This will insure everyone is getting a fair chance to get insurance and also provide competition which is sorely lacking.

You need masses for insurance to work, you can't rely on few. This current situation is a vicious cycle, I had great insurance 15 years ago, BC&BS with all the trimmings. Was paying for it myself. However the plan nearly doubled in cost in 3 to 4 years and has quadrupled since I dropped it. How many healthy people such as myself do you think dropped out of such plans over the last decade? Lots of them that's how many. This is turn drives up the cost for those that remain because they have less of pool to gather from.
Richard S.
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:29 pm

Any and all these ideas can be discussed.

What the public no longer will accept is insurance companies gouging huge profits while insuring only the most healthy and millions going uninsured.

No solution will be perfect or will make everybody happy. But the change is a'comin, gents.
stockingfull
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: Dallas On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:30 pm

For you younger folks, "Wait until you become eligible for Medicare and the various supplements". :no1: It will drive you nuts, trying to figure out , "what you have", "what you're going to get" and "how much you are going to have to spend for both, premiums and out of pocket". And in the end, you'll not have a clue :confused: Good luck :!:
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:34 pm

Richard S. wrote:You need masses for insurance to work, you can't rely on few. This current situation is a vicious cycle, I had great insurance 15 years ago, BC&BS with all the trimmings. Was paying for it myself. However the plan nearly doubled in cost in 3 to 4 years and has quadrupled since I dropped it. How many healthy people such as myself do you think dropped out of such plans over the last decade? Lots of them that's how many. This is turn drives up the cost for those that remain because they have less of pool to gather from.


If you read my description above of how this works with hospitals, you can appreciate why this happened to you. First, they had to get control of the market by getting a critical mass of patients insured. So they low-balled the premiums and co-pays. Once they had all the patients, they could dictate prices to hospitals and put the ones who still wanted to provide superior services out of business. Once the providers were under control, then they could start putting the screws to the policyholders by increasing premiums and co-pays.

But all that's OK, because it's our free-market system, right? :roll:

It's a racket worthy of the mafia, it's gonna be changed, and not a minute too soon.
stockingfull
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:37 pm

No real change can take place in our healthcare costs until some tort reform occurs. Greedy, slimy lawyers are the main reason healthcare is so expensive in this country. Unfortuanely most of the law makers are also lawyers so it's the good ol boy network protecting each other. What we need is an open season on lawyers instead of deer one year. Thinning the herd would be a great first step and probalbly bring many of the remaining "herd" into line with some sense or morality.
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:53 pm

coalkirk wrote:No real change can take place in our healthcare costs until some tort reform occurs. Greedy, slimy lawyers are the main reason healthcare is so expensive in this country. Unfortuanely most of the law makers are also lawyers so it's the good ol boy network protecting each other. What we need is an open season on lawyers instead of deer one year. Thinning the herd would be a great first step and probalbly bring many of the remaining "herd" into line with some sense or morality.


That's another straw-man argument foisted on the public by the greedy insurance industry.

It's just false. Tort lawyers make no money -- ZERO -- on cases they don't win. And you'll have a very hard time finding anybody who's ever been the victim of medical malpractice who's in favor of capping verdicts, or who wouldn't trade the money they got for the condition created by the negligence. You want to solve the problem? Get rid of the bad docs.

On top of that, the numbers just don't support the argument. Healthcare insurance profits dwarf the cost of paying damages to patients who've been injured by careless doctors.
stockingfull
 
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Re: U.S. Healthcare

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:54 pm

stockingfull wrote:
Richard S. wrote:You need masses for insurance to work, you can't rely on few. This current situation is a vicious cycle, I had great insurance 15 years ago, BC&BS with all the trimmings. Was paying for it myself. However the plan nearly doubled in cost in 3 to 4 years and has quadrupled since I dropped it. How many healthy people such as myself do you think dropped out of such plans over the last decade? Lots of them that's how many. This is turn drives up the cost for those that remain because they have less of pool to gather from.


If you read my description above of how this works with hospitals, you can appreciate why this happened to you. First, they had to get control of the market by getting a critical mass of patients insured. So they low-balled the premiums and co-pays. Once they had all the patients, they could dictate prices to hospitals and put the ones who still wanted to provide superior services out of business. Once the providers were under control, then they could start putting the screws to the policyholders by increasing premiums and co-pays.

But all that's OK, because it's our free-market system, right? :roll:

It's a racket worthy of the mafia, it's gonna be changed, and not a minute too soon.
You have got it right. I joined a new HMO in 1965. Founded on the principle of keeping people healthy, cheap checkups and screenings, affordable drugs from their own pharmacy. Worked well for decades, so well it caught the attention of the big medical insurance companies. It took Blue Cross a decade before they could buy it and run it in the ground. All for the profit and ego of the CEO. He abandoned all pretense of a non-profit charter for the public good and wanted to sell to a for-profit insurance company. Naturally he would make millions, $300 million if I remember right. The Maryland legislature put an end to it, by forcing a change in the parent non-profit BoD.
Yanche
 
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