K6 or K8 ???

 
benz k6
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Post by benz k6 » Tue. Feb. 24, 2015 8:35 pm

:dancing: :dancing: Hi all new to the forum. From what I've read so far you guys have a world of knowledge. One question, I have 4300 sq. ft. to heat 1800 is shop I'll keep @ 45 degrees and the rest is house.@ 70 Well insulated with new windows , radiant floor in the house and two 45000 BTU radiators in the shop. The boiler will be next to the shop about 100 ft. from the house. So k6 or k8 is my question, what does everybody think :?:


 
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2001Sierra
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Post by 2001Sierra » Tue. Feb. 24, 2015 8:59 pm

K8

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Feb. 24, 2015 10:07 pm

Maybe neither. First you need to determine the heat load.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Tue. Feb. 24, 2015 11:54 pm

If you could tell us roughly where you are located it would help some.

Mike

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 9:26 am

Noticed this guy has forced air oil and radiant floors in the house...wondering what heats the radiant floors???...can't be the forced air.???

 
coldinmaine
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Post by coldinmaine » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 9:29 am

are you heating domestic hot water.....do you have many people taking showers in the home? Also are you maintaining the temp in the shop. It takes a ton of BTU to heat up a space quickly....to maintain it isn't as much. However if you're going to let it cool at night (or over the weekend), I'd think the K8 would be minimum, and a k10 would provide extra umph.

 
Dirty Steve
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Post by Dirty Steve » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 9:49 am

Where will the boiler sit? House or shop. My K6 keeps my 1700 square foot basement at 76 degrees by radiation alone. Even with radiant tube in the basement floor I never turn it on. It is more than half underground with foam board insulation outside the block wall and under the floor.


 
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johnjoseph
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Post by johnjoseph » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 9:53 am

Dirty Steve wrote:Where will the boiler sit? House or shop. My K6 keeps my 1700 square foot basement at 76 degrees by radiation alone. Even with radiant tube in the basement floor I never turn it on. It is more than half underground with foam board insulation outside the block wall and under the floor.
Thanks for sharing the info on the radiant heat... I was wondering if I should insulate MY ka 6 WHEN IT IS INSTALLED IN THE SPRNG! It will be installed in the coldest part of the basement at 60 degrees...not going to insulate it with the infoe you shared

 
benz k6
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Post by benz k6 » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 6:06 pm

used to have a owb but it rotted out after 6 years P.O.S. How do I determine heat load? I'll be keeping the shop @45 all the time (just good working temp) no domestic hot water either. The boiler will sit by the shop about 100 ft. from the house. wife doesn't want any chimney stack coming out the side of the house, Besides the insulated pex is already run out there from where the wood boiler was. hope this anserd all the questions everybody asked. I'm really interested in how to determine heat load it sounds like you're on to something Rob R. By the way I live in Holland ny. about an hour south of Buffalo. been the coldest month on record for my area about --5 average had to switch the oil on 2 weeks ago and I'm dreading every second the furnace turns on. :cry: :cry: :cry:

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 6:46 pm

benz k6 wrote: I'm really interested in how to determine heat load
Rob's reference to "heat load" is interesting, because it combines 2 different methods you may see discussed on the forum. Some advocate reliance on "heat loss" computations, wherein a computer program takes info from you, applies some hidden assumptions and presents you with the number of BTU's per hour of "heat loss" you need to be able to replace. As long as you never open a door or window, use a setback thermostat, experience weather conditions more severe than the program assumed, etc., you might do ok with that. You may note, however, that the advocates of this method generally have lots of recommendations on how to shut off different parts of your system when it can't get the radiators hot in real-world conditions. Personally, I don't find that very comforting.

The second method is to inventory all of the radiation you have, and determine how many BTU's it is designed to provide. Like in the shop you would say 2 x 45k = 90k btu/hr. If those things are going to run, you better feed them the 90k, or they're going to be blowing around cold air. Add to this "attached radiation load" a reasonable allowance for losses from the distribution system, commonly called a "pickup factor". Install a boiler big enough to supply all of that, with maybe a little extra as a margin for error. This is an "old school" method used by people who actually expect their systems to work properly after dropping a bunch of $ into purchase and installation.

So the choice is yours. You can size the boiler to power the radiation you are trying to run, or size it according to the hidden assumptions buried in some computer program. Hey, you may save a few bucks if the computer tells you you're ok with a little boiler, and if the computer was wrong you can always keep yourself warm with the output from its cooling fan. :lol:

Mike

P.S. If the underground pipes from the outbuilding to the house can't carry all of the BTU's associated with the radiant flooring, pickup factor and DHW use in the house, the boiler need only be sized based on the btu-moving capacity of the pipes.
Last edited by Pacowy on Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
benz k6
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Post by benz k6 » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 7:39 pm

Thanks for the explanation on heat load. sounds like in this case bigger is better. Look forward to seeing those pics of the boiler

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 7:48 pm

In addition to the attached radiation and pickup factor, the boiler should be sized with an allowance for any planned use of boiler water to make DHW.

Mike

 
benz k6
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Post by benz k6 » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 7:56 pm

the forced air furnace is 119 BTU for the house and the shop is 90 do you think I should just add those together and size the boiler to that #, or is coal burning a hole different animal

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 8:23 pm

Pacowy :clap: :up: VERY GOOD ,very sensible explanation. How many times during this winter & last winter have I read of boilers that just couldn't keep up,because they were undersized for the work load. I may have missed the threads on the boilers that were too big,i just do not remember seeing any complaints on having a boiler oversized. ~~~~ benz k6,WELCOME to the coal forum. From an OWB to a coal boiler,you are heading the right direction with heating fuel choice,just last yr at this time I was feeding a wood monster too. Winter is much easier to deal with since heating with coal.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Wed. Feb. 25, 2015 8:39 pm

benz k6 wrote:the forced air furnace is 119 BTU for the house and the shop is 90 do you think I should just add those together and size the boiler to that #, or is coal burning a hole different animal
Hopefully a forum member with experience/expertise in underground lines (like maybe windyhill4.2) can weigh in on the btu-moving capacity of the line that serves the house. That may limit the amount of capacity that needs to be devoted to the house radiation + DHW. In the shop, you would need to decide whether one or both of the heaters could/should be put on a lower priority than the house. If you want them to run no matter what the capacity would be needed. If you have another source of heat for the shop that could be used on the coldest days, the needed boiler capacity would be reduced.

Mike


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