Obama Pitches for Clean Coal Technology

 
upstate
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Post by upstate » Fri. Mar. 07, 2008 4:26 pm

Diesel isn't getting better milage in the pickups. Have two 2006 f350 pickups, one gas ond diesel. Both get between 12-13 mpg. With diesel at 3.93 here in Ny, wish I would have got two gas trucks and saved the 6k for the diesel. Asked the dealer if I should be getting better mpg than that and he said "Not anymore". I live near a nuclear powerplant and am not scared of adding more plants around the us. These plants are from the 60s and 70s and are very safe. All of the disasters with the plants have been caused by human error.


 
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Post by stockingfull » Fri. Mar. 07, 2008 4:45 pm

Yeah, I have to say I was surprised when I went to edmunds.com and found quite comparable mileage between diesel and gas in medium duty pickups. If that's so, you're paying for the extra grunt and longevity; the economy's actually a negative with diesel at its current price level.

Where's Greg and Matthaus, our Dodge/Cummins diesel truck mavens?

 
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Post by LsFarm » Fri. Mar. 07, 2008 8:51 pm

If I drive sanely, my Dodge diesel 2500 4x4 quad cab, long wheelbase 8' bed truck gets 20mpg,+/- 1mpg. Thats at ~70 mph. I usually drive closer to 80mph, and that nets me~17+/-1mpg...

When I tow a fully loaded coal trailer with gross combined vehicle weight at 20-21,000 at 65-75mph, I get 11-12.5mpg. When I tow my carhauler trailer with a square flat front at 70-80mph, I get 11mpg.

The combustion chamber design of the Ford and Chevy diesel engine is not as efficient as the direct injection in the Cummins engine in the Dodge trucks... The Cummins engine is also a Medium Duty diesel engine, it is designed for use in vehicles up to 62,000 pounds.. The Ford and Chevy engines are LIght duty diesel engines... up to ~30K. If you get 300K miles out of a ford or chevy engine you are doing well... The Cummins is just broken in and is good for 500K easily, with proper oil changes and air filters.. {NOT a K&N air filter!! You might get to 200k with that rock filter in the air intake ].

I buy and sell 200K dodge diesels all the time.. they are fine... there are three documented Million mile Cummins dodge trucks that hauled trailers from coast to coast.. never had the pan off or the head off...

As for the current fuel mileage, you can thank your tree-hugger environmentalists for that... the emissions controls have finally hit the diesel world... and the efficiency of the engine has dropped accordingly... That black smoke coming out of a diesel??? it's carbon,, like coal... the tree huggers want us all walking and living in cells in apartments in big cities

I'll take a 20mph slightly sooty exhaust diesel truck over a 11mpg clean exhaust gas truck anyday...

Our air is much much cleaner than 20 years ago. Smog used to fill the LA basin, never saw the SanBernardino mountains from the city... Now you see them every day... The environmental whackos are out of control.

We are forced to buy 'low sulphur' diesel to drop the emissions of S02 to some riduculous level.. with the resulting loss in efficency in the new engines.

Greg L

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stockingfull
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Post by stockingfull » Fri. Mar. 07, 2008 9:56 pm

LsFarm wrote:As for the current fuel mileage, you can thank your tree-hugger environmentalists for that... the emissions controls have finally hit the diesel world... and the efficiency of the engine has dropped accordingly... That black smoke coming out of a diesel??? it's carbon,, like coal... the tree huggers want us all walking and living in cells in apartments in big cities

I'll take a 20mph slightly sooty exhaust diesel truck over a 11mpg clean exhaust gas truck anyday...

Our air is much much cleaner than 20 years ago. Smog used to fill the LA basin, never saw the SanBernardino mountains from the city... Now you see them every day... The environmental whackos are out of control.

We are forced to buy 'low sulphur' diesel to drop the emissions of S02 to some riduculous level.. with the resulting loss in efficency in the new engines.

Greg L

.
Damn. So, may I fairly infer that, from an economy standpoint, 'tis measurably better to have an old diesel than a new one?

 
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Post by Wardner » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 1:00 am

Damn. So, may I fairly infer that, from an economy standpoint, 'tis measurably better to have an old diesel than a new one?
As for the new diesels, I can't say. I am done buying new vehicles.

The truck in my avatar is a '98 Dodge/Cummins 12-valve with no computer. My mileage is around 14-15 mpg and I am not a lead foot. The body/hoist is heavy and the 4x4 gear adds some weight.

I run diesels because I have the tanks and pumps from the days I used to be in business. My annual fuel consumption used to average 15,000-20,000 gallons. Gas was not an option for my bigger trucks and air compressors.

The most compelling reason I still run diesels is fuel availability and stability. I was fully converted to diesels during the '70's fuel crisis. I never waited in a gas line. Today, I have enough fuel stored to go 50,000 miles. If Chavez or the Middle East goes nutz, we can count on restricted supplies. I hope some of those coal mines still use steam power. LOL

When I say fully converted, that would include my '32 Ford PU (Mercedes) and '47 KB-5 International (4-53 Detroit). Would like to find a way to convert my '40 H-D.

 
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Post by NorthernNewYork » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 11:26 am

The nice part about diesel is they will burn a variety of fuels, unlike gasoline engines. It doesn't seem that way esp in the Northeast where there isn't many commercially available options. I personally know people who run greasecars, but that depends on ones ability to get some used veggie oil/grease. Syn-diesel is available in the mid-west. Also don't forget about Fischer-Tropsch diesel made from coal. If every car on the road today was diesel we could quickly convert the country away from imported crude, and run on liquid coal. This would jack up the price of coal for us, but would be a viable solution to our dependence on OPEC.

 
stockingfull
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Post by stockingfull » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 11:42 am

NorthernNewYork wrote:The nice part about diesel is they will burn a variety of fuels, unlike gasoline engines. It doesn't seem that way esp in the Northeast where there isn't many commercially available options. I personally know people who run greasecars, but that depends on ones ability to get some used veggie oil/grease. Syn-diesel is available in the mid-west. Also don't forget about Fischer-Tropsch diesel made from coal. If every car on the road today was diesel we could quickly convert the country away from imported crude, and run on liquid coal. This would jack up the price of coal for us, but would be a viable solution to our dependence on OPEC.
It astonishes me that there isn't more discussion in our politics about this kind of thing. Energy independence is a at least as important a national security issue as Iraq or Afghanistan, it's cheaper and we have far more control over it.

There oughta be a full-court, all-discipline, broad-market assault on it. Alternative fuels, nukes, and let's not forget the easiest of all: conservation. It's unfathomable to me that, other than developing ethanol and hydrogen cars, this isn't as big a part of the "War" we're told we're in as the guns and up-armored vehicles.


 
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Post by Richard S. » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 12:29 pm

There's no overnight fix for this, this is going to take decades to accomplish. Oil as source of fuel is ingrained into our economy mostly because of the infrastructure which is by far the largest obstacle of all. It's been built up over a century and it can't be replaced overnight. It's all well and good to suggest building nukes and looking at other alternative sources of fuels but you have to look at the big picture. Lets say we switch to hydrogen based cars, where are you going to fill your car up? How is it going to get there? Where is all this hydrogen going to be produced?

As gas costs rise other forms of energy will be become more lucrative and business will begin to invest in it, business will solve this problem but only when it becomes profitable. The oil companies sell oil because they can make a lot of money off it, if the same were true of other fuels someone will step up and sell that too.

I'll tell you one thing I do enjoy is the fact that the U.S. is sucking up so much oil yet is still sitting on all these coal reserves. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy to know that at the very least we do have an alternative that is readily available that can make us independent of foreign sources of energy, that's more than a lot of nations can say.

 
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Post by stockingfull » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 1:00 pm

That there isn't a quick fix is all the more reason to be all over the energy independence issue.

If we're talking about being in Iraq for decades, or a century :shock: , we should be girding ourselves vigorously for, say, another oil embargo. Now, that's a real national security interest.

If we all parked our SUV's and drove Priuses (or anything getting 35 or more MPG) the savings would be immediate, and monumental -- I'm sure somebody has done the math. It would be a veritable 2nd Declaration of Independence, this time from the sheiks. And nobody would have given up anything but the size of the contraption they're pushing around.

Obviously, legitimate business vehicles can't always be "shrunk." But a whole lot of them can. For example, I live in a little village and the police just bought a Hemi Charger. Complete waste; there's no need to "give chase" here; besides, they have these new things called "radios" now. It's just one example of how badly we need fresh thinking about the whole range of our energy usage.

We coal burners, especially those of us who've come to coal recently, are in the vanguard of the energy independence movement. Hell, look at the savings just from switching to the new fluorescent lightbulbs. We, of all people, should be able to recognize how many areas there are where we can make immediate and beneficial changes and push for the gubment to create the atmosphere to promote them.

 
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gambler
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Post by gambler » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 1:09 pm

stockingfull wrote: If we all parked our SUV's and drove Priuses (or anything getting 35 or more MPG) the savings would be immediate, and monumental -- I'm sure somebody has done the math. It would be a veritable 2nd Declaration of Independence, this time from the sheiks. And nobody would have given up anything but the size of the contraption they're pushing around.
Sounds great!!
I will be waiting for you to deliver my prius to me.
Many of us just can't go and buy a new car and are limited to buying a used car that is 5 or so years old.

 
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Post by stockingfull » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 1:18 pm

gambler wrote:
stockingfull wrote: If we all parked our SUV's and drove Priuses (or anything getting 35 or more MPG) the savings would be immediate, and monumental -- I'm sure somebody has done the math. It would be a veritable 2nd Declaration of Independence, this time from the sheiks. And nobody would have given up anything but the size of the contraption they're pushing around.
Sounds great!!
I will be waiting for you to deliver my prius to me.
Many of us just can't go and buy a new car and are limited to buying a used car that is 5 or so years old.
Priuses are more show than go economically anyway.

The point is to reduce mass and burn less fuel, as quickly as we can. Doesn't have to be in a brand-new machine. Drive the lightest thing you have and, when you make your next buy, reduce weight as much as possible.

 
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Post by Ed.A » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 1:19 pm

stockingfull wrote: Hell, look at the savings just from switching to the new fluorescent lightbulbs.
Interesting, all that wonderful MERCURY being introduced to the enviroment...:shh:

And No, not enough people will recycle them properly and responsibly.
Drive the lightest thing you have and, when you make your next buy, reduce weight as much as possible.
And that my friends also helps keep down the popluation by increasing the chances of having a fatal car accident, its a Win Win situation :dancing:

 
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Post by stockingfull » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 1:25 pm

Better to kill people fighting wars over oil, I guess. :roll:

 
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Post by Yanche » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 2:30 pm

Liquid petroleum will be the basis for our, and the rest of the worlds, transportation engine for a long long time. There is nothing that has the energy density per unit weight. Want to drive a coal fired steam powered car? Guess what that might weigh! As crude oil prices rise the Canadian tar sand oils will become competitive. Look to them as the future of our oil needs. That's why is so important to remain friends with our neighbors to the north. If we piss them off they can just sell the tar sand derived oil on the world market. NAFT is important to Canada. Want to repeal the treaty? Want to re-do the deal? How do you think the Canadians will feel when we need their oil? There is plenty of demand from China, India and others. With the demise of the USSR the idea of planed central economies has been shown to be a dismal failure. Every nation in the world now has an economy based, at least in part on capitalism. As people in those developing countries, want more than just a subsistence living, world wide oil demand will rise. There is nothing we can do about it. The only thing that can meet the ever increasing long term energy demand is nuclear power. Sure conservation, wind, solar helps but it's like pissing in the ocean. Not enough to make a difference.

 
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spc
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Post by spc » Sat. Mar. 08, 2008 3:19 pm

Why aren't we building more nuclear power plants & drilling in ANWR? Take a guess.


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