How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:50 am

Yup.
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coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: journeyman On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:06 pm

Sting wrote:The only way to understand the difference between moving sufficient GPM [SUCCESSFULLY] is to read the books I have listed. We cannot go into the detail it will take here. I understand your doubt and please don't take offense at my persistence. Read the books and gently learn why. May I add also, if you use a port on the boiler other than the recommended supply and return ports, you could make hot spots by incorrect wash inside the vessel and crack the boiler - such as your diagram using the safety port and the drain port (if mfg dedicated as such) for a second boiler loop. Pumping liquid and moving energy with a liquid are two different things. Moving liquid energy is best done with volume not pressure, and I agree as you note; if you raise pressure you can obtain almost any flow rate. But raising pressure takes a hi watt demand pump - thats electricity you will have to buy for the rest of what ever!!! The small TACO variable speed pumps today run on minimal wattage, and variable GPM can support better transfer efficiency when seasonal demand varies by degree days. Lower gpm rates for lower firing days and Higher for higher days, no pumping when the coal boiler is catching up!

Here is another pressure analogy: You can drink from the water fountain at the library because the water flows over your mouth at some gpm of LOW pressure. BUT if that same gpm is applied to your mouth by a cheep pressure washer at HI pressure it will not be as palatable. Your boiler also does not like hi pressure flow of any rate.

Hope that helps - I tried to keep the Greek out!


tThis is not rocket science, the boiler has 11/4" connections, they are sized this way for one reason, to deliver the max btu's. that is the size you need to tie into your existing boiler, follow the drawings you have with your new boiler, and dont you dare use anything but copper piping, forget siing a different pump your home is heated by btu's not gallons per minute. go to hollihans site and you will soon learn what im talking about, tsome of the adive you have been given is simply bullshit, i have installed a number of harman boilers and have never had one complaint. just keep it simple dont worry about gpm, obviously your house is comfortable with the existing piping by installing a bigger pump serves no purpose, you cannont exrtact more btu's from more gallons per minute as pipe size will dictate btu's one other thing you must be made aware of, if you do not follow harmans diagram, you can wipe your ass with your warranty. its really easy to install.
journeyman
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: magnum stoker

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:22 am

wow -- I forgot I wrote all that waste of band width

Thanks for digging it back up Journeyman :cry:
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG


Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: tboonie On: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:03 pm

Guys.. HELP!!!!! I'm having some difficulties with my install. I pulled out my old oil boiler yesterday, getting ready for the new install today. They delivered it, and forgot to order the oil burner attachment!!! So the wife isn't too happy with no hot water for several more days until the oil burner shows up. Anyway, my real problem is settings. The guy installing it didn't know what to set the aquastat settings at. There is one "differential" dial under the temperature setting control and then there are two settings on the "overheat" control on the right. Any help with what you guys have them set at would be great! Also, information on how you guys set the feed timer stuff, that would be a big help as well.

Oh, I almost forgot. How do you guys have your circulator (s) connected. I only have 1 zone, 1 circulator to connect. He said that I didn't connect the circulator to any of the vf3000 controls, but rather my circulator would be controlled by my thermostat. But yet, somehow I needed the overheat control to also turn on the circulator. How do I hook that up?

I do have a circulator control box that the previous owner of my house had used for a wood stove boiler. I think I could use the normally open contact on the overheat control to connect in parallel with my thermostat. That way, if the thermostat closes calling for heat, it will turn on the cirulator or if the overheat relay on the aquastat closes, it will make connection and turn on the circulator. Does this sound correct?

Thanks again.

Terry
tboonie
 

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: tboonie On: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:19 pm

Still no oil gun attachment. Dealer says Harman has one in Allentown and said they would ship it out to him so he would have it by Wednesday... we'll Wednesday has come and gone and still no oil burner. Dealer called them again today and they said it was still in Allentown and they would try to get it out Today. Ughhhh...... Anyway, dealer did come over with several 5 gallon buckets of dry coal and showed me how to fire it up so that I would at least have domestic hot water until the oil gun came in. Seems to be working ok, but he had a hard time getting a good draft in this 90+ degree, humid weather. It was hanging right around .01 to .02. I was kind of concerned so I put a CO2 detector with digital readout right next to the boiler, and have 2 more up stairs in my one story ranch. Everything reads Zero, so it seems like it's ok for now. He said in the fall and winter when it's cooler out, I should get better draft. He did hold up a flame near the baro and when he cracked the baro door open, it sucked the flame into the pipe really well so It seemed like it had ok draft. I'm not sure his draft meter was working very well either. It looked pretty beat up. I ordered one on ebay and should be here soon.

Now, after being so long winded, here are my questions:

1. If I hook up a manometer to my pipe, do I want the hole past the damper or between the damper and the stove?

2. My pressure gauge is readying 25psi. Is this too high? Every once in a while, it will pop off just a little bit and spit out and ounce or two of water. What is a normal operation psi?

Any info would be a great help.

Thanks,

Terry
tboonie
 

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:28 pm

answer to question 2


http://www.bellgossett.com/literature/files/1195.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Start at page 5
you will have the answer by page 9

There will be a test later
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:07 pm

tboonie wrote:1. If I hook up a manometer to my pipe, do I want the hole past the damper or between the damper and the stove?

2. My pressure gauge is readying 25psi. Is this too high? Every once in a while, it will pop off just a little bit and spit out and ounce or two of water. What is a normal operation psi?

1. It should be between the stove and the baro damper.

2. A large increase in pressure at start up is normal. You have just heated a very large quantity of water, it is going to expand quite a bit and it has no where to go being in a sealed system. If the high number is going to keep you up at night, just lift the lever on the safety valve and get it back down to 10#. Once it recovers, it should settle down in the mid-teens. This way you will know what the setpoint really is. Normally they will run at 12-18#, it can run higher in a very tall house.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: tboonie On: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:21 am

I found out why it was popping off.... after reading the suggested material, I found out that my expansion tank wasn't working properly.... it was over 30 years old and rusted to death and bent at the fitting. Not that the external appearance matters, but I'm pretty sure either the bladder was bad or somehow the air leaked out. Either way, I didn't want to chance it. On top of that, I had water coming out my automatic air bleeder on top and everything was very corroded. Finally, I had the circulator pushing toward the expansion tank which I found out was a no no. So, I cut everything back apart, installed a new expansion tank, air scoop, and automatic bleeder on top. Fired it all backup and running between 15 and 20 lbs now... that part is working nicely. I'm having problems keeping the fire burning without overheating and dumping heat into my registers.

I've tried the following settings with no luck, it always burns out on me.

1. Feed 4 1/2 out, on 4 min, off 14 min.

2. Feed 3 1/2 out, on 3 min, off 10 min.

(Both these settings, the coal seems to burn all the way back to the point of feed, so I'm thinking maybe I'm starving it of coal, not sure though)

3. Feed 3 out, on 5 min, off 10 min. ( this was overfiring and dumping heat )

It seems very hard to keep it burning, without overheating and dumping heat.

Anyone have suggestions on settings??? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I also have a low draft (.01 to .02) which I think is because it was 90+ deg and high humidity when he checked it. But when a flame was placed near the baro, it was drawing the flame into the pipe, so it seems like it has some draft. I have a CO dectector 2 feet away from the stove, sitting on the floor with digital readout and has never gone off of zero so it seems safe.

I've thought about plugging burner fan directly into wall outlet and run constant and then just reduce feed down. Any ideas?

Thanks everyone. I think once I can open this baby up this winter, I'm going to love it. The wife already loves the constant temp on the domestic compared to the old oil burner.

Terry
tboonie
 

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:04 am

You passed the test.

Image
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: journeyman On: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:16 pm

you say overheating and dumping heat? where are you dumping heat, through the pressure relief valve?
where are you overheating?

if you are burningall the available coal then you need to increase your feed rate or reduce your combustion air flow.

a 1 story house should have 10 to 12 psi on the system, evry additional floor add approximtely 5-psi, there should not be any great pressure expansion at start up. the slight expansion will be accomodated with your expansion tank.
journeyman
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: magnum stoker

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: tboonie On: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:42 pm

journeyman wrote:you say overheating and dumping heat? where are you dumping heat, through the pressure relief valve?
where are you overheating?

if you are burningall the available coal then you need to increase your feed rate or reduce your combustion air flow.

a 1 story house should have 10 to 12 psi on the system, evry additional floor add approximtely 5-psi, there should not be any great pressure expansion at start up. the slight expansion will be accomodated with your expansion tank.


By overheating, I mean that I have the boiler set at 150 and the running just on the timers, it reaches 180 to 185 and the "overheat" aquastat kicks in and turns on the circulator which dumps heat into my registers.

I got it burning nice and slow by plugging the blower in direct to outlet running 24/7, on time at 2 min, off time at 13 min and feed at 4 1/2 turns out. It's also running around 16 or 17 psi now.

Thankfully, they just got the oil burner attachment installed this afternoon. Seems to be working well.
tboonie
 

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:14 pm

tboonie wrote:it reaches 180 to 185 and the "overheat" aquastat kicks in and turns on the circulator which dumps heat into my registers.

185*? Is that the recommended overtemp? Seems low to me. Tankless coil DHW?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: tboonie On: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:27 am

That probably is low and I can adjust it. I was just chicken to set it anywhere near 200+. Oil burner is installed now and working well. I have it set to dump heat at 25 degrees above my temp. set point. (currently at 160). I'm sure I'll need to tweak these as I begin to burn this fall.
tboonie
 

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:52 pm

You can be brave and set dump at 210.... no need to run the scrubber without cause :) The target is to scrub off heat as not to allow a boil and trigger the pop off valve. Boil will be further postponed by every atmosphere of pressure ( pounds ) as each increment will raise the boil point of the vessel. And that is a moving target by your sea level and heat infrastructure height.
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: How to plumb a Harman vf3000 Boiler

PostBy: ValterBorges On: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:23 pm

LsFarm wrote:My propane boiler has an electricly controled flue damper, so the flue is closed unless the burner is running.. I'm not losing any of my coal-heat up that chimney.

I'm all for simple.... I like just running the systems in series, like coalkirk's system... you can even use the current circulator on the existing oil or gas boiler. just put the coal boiler in the return line before the oil/gas boiler, set the aquastat on the oil/gas boiler 30* cooler than the coal boiler's and watch it work...

No need to get too 'cosmic' with valves, pumps and controls... unless that is fun for you, for me, simple is better... I deal with way too much 'cosmic computerized widgets' in the airplanes I fly.... I don't want to deal with them in my heating system. :D :? :lol:

Greg L



Greg,
I too have such a damper but it seems to be stuck in the on position. What model do you have? How do you troubleshoot this thing?
Mine is a slant/fin model.
ValterBorges
 
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260