Stove and Heat

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Mar. 29, 2015 3:01 am

Rev. Larry you are doing the real work know that and revel in it There are only 3 basic needs the rest are optional shelter food and heat. They sound like they have shelter hopefully the food bank and chuck wagon offering food and you heat. It is all good! I make my little contribution by dropping food off at the food bank when I have a good week and look for some food on sale, this week store brand tuna 88 cents a can so 10 of those and pastas 88 cents a box along with a few jars of pasta sauce. A couple weeks ago some Kraft Mac and cheese. While not the best in nutrition all the time it makes a warm belly and food for a night.

A thought for you 3M indoor window film. I wonder if they would donate 50-100 kits to those that have little and struggling. It will save a bunch in heating even if only doing a few in the coldest rooms. It is good PR for them and a write off as well if you a non profit. Just a thought you are the man at the reins.


 
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blrman07
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Post by blrman07 » Sun. Mar. 29, 2015 9:11 pm

Going to a small community outside of East Stroudsburg Pa. on Tuesday to pick up a Villager stove for $100. It is a smaller UK origin stove that is advertised as dual fuel. I was going to post a photo of the stove but the OP took it down from CL since I told him I wanted it. This is your standard box type stove that seems to have a little bit of flair to it. I'll post photo's after I pick it up. I have a good idea of a "forever family" for this stove.

A check of the Villager web site says it is probably 5kw with a KW being about 3,500 BTU's. It should be in the 150 pound weight area... A little guy. Since it doesn't weigh more than me I should be able to wrangle it into the truck with the sellers help. Wife is going but she don't lift. She rides and looks pretty which is fine with me!! :D

I went to their website and I saw double sided stoves, stoves for tree houses, and what intrigued me was Wurt stoves. First what the heck is a Wurt? I read about it and here's the link so you can learn also. Oh yeah the Wurt stove is light and sturdy because it has to transported by Yak. :shock:

Put that in your smipe and poke it!!!
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/yurt-stoves.html

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Mon. Mar. 30, 2015 1:28 am

5kw=17076 btu./hr. according to the tables in Convert a freeware utility that has about every unit conversion imaginable.

 
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blrman07
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Post by blrman07 » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 5:45 am

Update on the Villager stove. The wife and I made it to the East Stroudsburg Pa. area just fine. We ran into a snow squall that was predicted to dump about 5" of white stuff in their higher elevations. We got the stove loaded and headed back to Ashland as quick as we could. I parked the truck behind the church and went back on Saturday to move it and unload the stove and it wouldn't start. It would crank but not fire. It ran fine up there and back. Now nothing. Just cranks. I suspect a fuel pump problem. Have to call the shop today and have them come look at it.

Anyhoooo..... An update on the Locke 120 donated stove. I found a grate at Marks Supply in Shenandoah Pa. That is a wonderful place. If they don't have it, or they can't get it or they can't make it then you don't need it. I also went to the church that this Locke 120 is going into. They are putting 5 gallons a week of fuel oil into the tank and the pastor is going to the church at around 5 on Sunday mornings to fire up the hot air furnace. Then they shut it down to save oil.

He described how the folks will crowd around the old convection hot air grate that the oil fired oil furnace ductwork is piped to. He wants to hold a midweek service and maybe have some meals after church but they can't afford the oil. I told him it would be perfect to take the duct work off that old floor grate so the hot air could come right up. He wants to leave the oil burner in place as an installed backup. It will make the install a little more tricky but we can make this work.

I explained how we can set the Locke 120 right next to the oil burner. We can remove the old galvanized stove pipe and replace it with black pipe. When he wants to use the Locke, he can disconnect the flue pipe from the oil burner, swivel it over and connect it to the stove. When he wants to use the oil burner he can take it loose and swivel it over and re-attach it to the oil burner. This is the same process I use for the oil boiler and the bucket a day that I have in my house. Takes 5 minutes tops.

I found the oil furnace return duct is dead ended at the ceiling. Someone put a large grate in the duct so it faces the supply duct. There is about a 2 inch gap between the supply and return ducts. It is basically pulling basement air and getting some preheat off the supply duct. Sooooo. what I figure is to open the cover on the fan housing and when the stove is firing it can pull the heated air into the supply fan and distribute the heat using the existing hot air duct work. Not optimal but it should work. The pastors idea is to let the stairwell be the "chimney" for the hot air. It will work but he will have to get the basement hot before the air will naturally flow up the stairwell which is at the other end of the basement.

Once I get the truck running again, I will be able to transport it out there and set it up on block in the basement. Photo's to follow. I tried to attach two photo's here but they just end up all black with no image when I try to post them. Don't know what the problem is. When I figure it out I'll post em.

Rev. Larry

 
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Hambden Bob
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Post by Hambden Bob » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 6:00 am

Nice Job,Rev.....It'll all work out. :up:

 
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blrman07
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Post by blrman07 » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 6:11 am

Code Meeting Update.....

I had a "hallway" meeting with the borough code enforcement lady regarding the alleged ordinances for stoves and the burning of wood in the Ashland Pa. Borough. She presented me with a copy of the Borough Ordinance dealing with the installation of coal and wood burning stoves stoves and appliances and the construction of chimneys and smoke pipes. It was passed in 1980 and included statements such as " Clearance of less than 18" the combustible surface shall be protected by 1/4 inch asbestos millboard spaced one inch or more from the combustible surface." It gave no further allowance for stove placement than a foot and one half into the room I asked her since asbestos was outlawed can we substitute with 1/2 inch Durock. She had no idea what I was talking about and referred me to talk to their code "inspector" who they contract with to ensure compliance with IRC and UCC. He said that he would be the one doing any inspections under the International Residential Code. He knew what I was talking about. This guy I can work with. It did state you had to get a permit from the Borough and the Fire Chief would do any inspections. They have since contracted with the "inspection agency" but never updated anything.

We next concluded that there is no ordinance banning the burning of wood in stoves, furnaces and fireplaces used for the heating of a dwelling in the Borough of Ashland Pa. Otherwise why would they have an ordinance giving residents rules on installing wood burning stoves, furnaces and boilers? She had no argument for that point. She is sure there is an ordinance banning outdoor firepits and OWB's. She is sure it's in place but can't find it.

I asked her to keep looking and I would be back this Wednesday for a copy of it. I am not dealing with fire pits and OWB but this exercise is just to keep her honest. I have people at church who are asking me why am I poking the bear? After 27 years as a commissioned boiler inspector in multiple states I know how to deal with code people. I used to be one!!!!

And I thought this ministry was going to be uncomplicated. I never factored in dealing with code enforcement people who have so little experience and/or knowledge with code applications and ramifications of keeping ordinances updated!!!

Rev. Larry

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 6:31 am

Good work Rev. Sorry to hear about the truck.

And I'm sure your helping this code gal, be better at her job, too. She's actually having to learning something in connection with the job. ;)

Paul


 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 7:04 am

Rev. Larry interesting to hear you have 17 years as a boiler inspector. I may have some questions down the road about low pressure steam. And rather certain you know more about code enforcement than the code lady has has even dreamed was in it to be correctly worded. Over 40 years ago I was an oil burner tech with a CT B2 license that allowed me to service up to I think 33 gallons an hour though never worked on anything bigger than around 15. We used to deal with smoke opacity. I would think a proper code would read less than X smoke opacity or possibly not over X for more than xx minutes in a 24 hr period. Does this make sense rather than just banning the device per se? The NFA code is downloadable and will see if I can fid the link for you and If I have a copy of the pdf can forward it to you. Thin gauge sheet metal on metal 2X3s is light weight and listed in the code to reduce back clearances or side clearances and appropriate percent and minimums are listed for various materials. 99% of all codes are based off this I was told for heat generating appliances. Possibly that could be handy when code compliance is in question.

 
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ChrisS
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Post by ChrisS » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 7:14 am

blrman07 wrote:
And I thought this ministry was going to be uncomplicated.

Rev. Larry
We have a saying at church. "Ministry would be great, if it weren't for the people!" Sometimes it's the people you are ministering to and with, and sometimes it's the people you have to deal with along the path of that ministry. So long as your motivation for your actions remains centered on what is pure and true, keep up the good work!

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 10:06 am

blrman07 wrote: We ran into a snow squall that was predicted to dump about 5" of white stuff in their higher elevations.Rev. Larry
I can't believe it's April, and you guys down there are getting a 1/2 a foot of snow. We ran into a snow squall last night, but luckily it didn't amount to anything.
And Rev., you gutta love dealing with code thumping insp., who haven't got a clue what they're talkin about. My wife made me apply for a permit when I went to install my stove, and my concern was the "reduced clearance" issue. My town insp., didn't know anything about it, and neither did the fire marshal. I ended up doing all the foot work, and once I convinced the inspector of it, he sent out his assistant to do the final approval, and she didn't look at anything when she arrived. She remembered working at the same Co. as me, many years B4, and we talked about about the past, all my other projects, and life in general. But as for the stove install, approved W/O a single dimensional check. I'm sure you're doing your homework too.

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 11:08 am

If the building inspector and fire marshal don't have a copy of the NFPA code book and know what is it what are they doing in their jobs? Bigger question how did they get it? Or just the usual small town incompetence / nepotism? When I put my shop up here there were inventing building codes for me to follow and zoning did know their code on variances for setback. Show me the code in plain language ended most discussions.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 11:42 am

Come on DD, you know how they got it--good old boy mentality--it's not who ya know, it's who ya :blah: --etc, etc!

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 11:59 am

ddahlgren wrote:If the building inspector and fire marshal don't have a copy of the NFPA code book and know what is it what are they doing in their jobs? Bigger question how did they get it? Or just the usual small town incompetence / nepotism? When I put my shop up here there were inventing building codes for me to follow and zoning did know their code on variances for setback. Show me the code in plain language ended most discussions.

I don't call this place "Mayberry" for nothing. I think the Chief of Police is allowed to carry one bullet in his top pocket. And the town Insp? He was originally a licensed plumber B4 becoming an insp, many years ago. When I asked him in the beginning about why didn't he know, aren't there many towns people with stoves? And his answer was, "Yes, but they don't come to me for information or permitts. But when their house burns down, the insurance people come knocking".

 
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Buck47
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Post by Buck47 » Fri. Apr. 10, 2015 11:08 am

Ok Rev:

I mailed the pattern this morning.

What has worked well in the past is to use a piece of mild steel 1/8 inch thick. Heat bend it to the front of the stove load door so the curve is established. Then overlay the pattern I sent you & drill out as much material as practical, then finish up with an air die grinder and hand files. Simple for a man with the tooling.

You will need to fabricate some kind of finger size protrusion to make it easy to slide right & left (open / closed)

Let us know how it turns out for you.

Attachments

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joeq
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Post by joeq » Fri. Apr. 10, 2015 4:57 pm

Wow. You are quite the craftsman John. Hard to find people with the talent to forge components by hand these days. Nicely done.


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