General Petraeus on Iraq

I don't usually post replies to these types of arguements one way or the other. I don't post many replies in general, but this thread kind of touched a nerve. Abu Gharib was a huge disappointment and embarasment for every American, no matter where they are or what they believe in. Yes, it is true that the acts performed were completed by a small handful of soldiers in terrible coditions, but tehy represented, as all soldiers represent, America, and all we stand for.
The fact that CBS and the New Yorker and then The New York Times broke the news and ran numerous stories should not make us ashamed, but proud. Reasonable people everwhere will undestand that we are a people who can make a mistake, but will stand up for this mistake and atone for that mistake. That is what makes us a great nation. Not that we have the strongest military, but that we have the strongest military and it is accountable to the people. It took a long time and a lot of attonement for the damage that was done by the Abu Ghraib scandal to be overcome by postive work of US servicemen and civilians working in Iraq, and the students of Petraeus out there will understand that winning an insurgency will mean winning the population.
I didn't get a chance to read all of those articles when they were written, although I knew about the news, as I was deployed as a company commander in Iraq from May of 03 until August of 04. But those news articles were as important in completing the job over there as anything else, and I am proud they can be published.

I can't for the life of me understand why running 32 successive front page articles on Abu Ghraib prison was needed. Was it just in case Al Jazeera missed the first 31. Please enlighten me.

stelradCoal wrote:I don't usually post replies to these types of arguements one way or the other. I don't post many replies in general, but this thread kind of touched a nerve. Abu Gharib was a huge disappointment and embarasment for every American, no matter where they are or what they believe in. Yes, it is true that the acts performed were completed by a small handful of soldiers in terrible coditions, but tehy represented, as all soldiers represent, America, and all we stand for.
The fact that CBS and the New Yorker and then The New York Times broke the news and ran numerous stories should not make us ashamed, but proud. Reasonable people everwhere will undestand that we are a people who can make a mistake, but will stand up for this mistake and atone for that mistake. That is what makes us a great nation. Not that we have the strongest military, but that we have the strongest military and it is accountable to the people. It took a long time and a lot of attonement for the damage that was done by the Abu Ghraib scandal to be overcome by postive work of US servicemen and civilians working in Iraq, and the students of Petraeus out there will understand that winning an insurgency will mean winning the population.
I didn't get a chance to read all of those articles when they were written, although I knew about the news, as I was deployed as a company commander in Iraq from May of 03 until August of 04. But those news articles were as important in completing the job over there as anything else, and I am proud they can be published.

An excellent an obviously heartfelt post. Welcome to the debate & hope that you will share more with us when you feel motivated to do so. It is rare here to hear from people who actualy have served in Iraq & I congatulate your courage & service to this country.

spc wrote:I can't for the life of me understand why running 32 successive front page articles on Abu Ghraib prison was needed. Was it just in case Al Jazeera missed the first 31. Please enlighten me.

Read stelrad's post for your answer

Devil5052 wrote:

spc wrote:I can't for the life of me understand why running 32 successive front page articles on Abu Ghraib prison was needed. Was it just in case Al Jazeera missed the first 31. Please enlighten me.

Read stelrad's post for your answer

I am also thankful for stelradCoal's service but he didn't address, which I wouldn't expect him to, the relentless quantity of NYT articles. I think the military got the message after maybe the first two. With all do respect IMO our solders have more of this kind of atitude toward the press:
Courtesy of BugsyR

[quote="spc"]
I am also thankful for stelradCoal's service but he didn't address, which I wouldn't expect him to, the relentless quantity of NYT articles.





Quote from stelradCoal's post above:

"The New York Times broke the news and ran numerous stories should not make us ashamed, but proud. "

Devil5052 wrote:
Quote from stelradCoal's post above:
"The New York Times broke the news and ran numerous stories should not make us ashamed, but proud. "

Sorry but I totally disagree. I'm not ashamed & I don't need 32 front page articles to make me proud of our country or our military. How about a front page article on the good our military is doing in Iraq or how gitmo detainees are really being treated. On balance we have the most honorable, respectful military on earth, bar none. How about reporting about it once in awhile.

“The Abu Ghraib Obsession”

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005120

Devil5052 wrote:By the way, I have my doubts about your claims of military service as well. (Sorry, but I don't count Cub Scouts as prior military service)

Its odd that you don't question the military service of a forum member when he agrees with your point of view.
You should have at least afforded another member the same respect when his opinion differs.

spc wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:By the way, I have my doubts about your claims of military service as well. (Sorry, but I don't count Cub Scouts as prior military service)

Its odd that you don't question the military service of a forum member when he agrees with your point of view.
You should have at least afforded another member the same respect when his opinion differs.

I forget who I directed that question to but, if memory serves, it was in the midst of a fairly heated debate & I admit to being human. If you look back through my many posts, I dont make a habit of the personal attack that you are charging me with here. I try to treat everyone with respect & am usually on the receiving end of attacks, not the instigating side.

stelradCoal wrote:....and ran numerous stories should not make us ashamed, but proud......But those news articles were as important in completing the job over there as anything else, and I am proud they can be published.

stelradCoal...I salute you!


I agree with most of stelradCoal's post however with no disrespect intended what-so-ever to his post, my opinion still remains the same as what is shown in the picture I have posted. I too am very proud...of our country and our military...I am not proud of our media. As I have stated before, the media is about money, for themselves along with being politically driven which makes me very ashamed of them.

Example I have used before: In the 1960's CBS news was it's own division & not expected to turn a profit by managment. Now CBS News falls under the "Entertainment Division" & is expected to show a profit like any other sitcom.

I agree with Devil's past statement but I still believe there is a political agenda behind that entertainment. And sometimes it truly is a sitcom...

IMO, what is not being recognized in this debate is that it is precisely the media, the so-called "fourth estate," which plays an absolutely essential role in preserving our liberty by exposing -- as far as is necessary to correct the condition -- departures of all kinds from the precepts of our form of government. After all, that's what the definition of "news" is: something unexpected.

Whether it's Watergate, Monica-gate, the "Keating 5," "Trooper-gate," "Travel-gate," "Spitzer-gate," Abu-Ghraib, Walter Reed, Jack Abramoff, "Gonzo-gate" or what-have-you-gate, what generates interest is when things don't go as expected, when people aren't doing their jobs, when public money is being stolen, when our soldiers, or our politicians, are not adhering to our stated principles about treatment of prisoners or of other countries. That is the essence of the freedom of the press; when the supposed checks and balances in our government are out of balance (as many believe they now are), it's that much more important for the press to discover these things and alert the people that their gov't isn't working as it should. And to push on those issues until things change.

That freedom of the press is arguably the main engine which keeps us free from the kinds of corruption, incompetence or malfeasance which would undermine and corrode our system of government and, as such, is one of the most important principles for which our servicemen and -women are fighting. The founding fathers knew it only too well, and it's no coincidence that it's the First Amendment.

And, stelradCoal, I join in saluting your service, just as I salute our servicepeople, whether they're on the side I occupy in these debates or not. As MacArthur found out, soldiers are never denied their beliefs on policy, but they're there to carry out policy, not make it.

Moqtada al-Sadr
"I have failed to liberate Iraq, and transform its society into an Islamic society."

"Moqtada al-Sadr -- the radical cleric dubbed "The Most Dangerous Man in Iraq" by a Newsweek cover story in December 2006"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1205967 ... inion_main

"Ghostride the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle" Ramadi, Iraq

Hope the General doesn't see this.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1807849

Pelosi warns Petraeus on Iraq testimony.

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D) warned Army Gen. David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker on Thursday not to "put a shine on recent events” in Iraq when they testify before Congress next week."

What a piece of work this woman is.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm? ... CF9CEEA524

Which of the GOP crook Speakers are you pining for? Newt "Impeach Clinton for philandering while I'm philandering" Gingrich? David "I almost was Speaker but I was also a philanderer" Livingston? Denny "Look the other way while Mark Foley was diddling with the pages" Hastert? How about good ol' leader Tom "let's illegally reapportion Texas while I'm golfing at St. Andrews with Abramoff" DeLay?

I think we all can guess what Gen. Petraeus will say this week. He is a good man & a great general but he is working for a man that accepts no disagreement or questioning from anyone. Any military man who crosses him...gets fired..plain & simple!
Whatever the situation in Iraq, this administration's answer is the same....
They need:
More Men
More Time
More Money

If Iraq's violence is down: ...It "proves" the Surge is working & therefore must be extended

If Iraq's violence is up: .....It "proves" that we need more of a commitment


Whatever Gen. Petraeus reports....The recomendation will of course be the same:

More Men
More Time
More Money

Does anyone seriously doubt that?




How can we ever hope to end this? (according to GW Bush, no matter what happens.........we cant)


Edit: The "More Men" argument has really been conceded by the administration since there are no "more men" available & our military simply cannot sustain the present levels we now have in Iraq, with alot of the GI's on their 4th tours of duty!