Stove selection for my house.

Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: sharkman8810 On: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:49 pm

I am trying to find the right size and type/model of stove for my circumstances. I live in a 2 story stucco house that is approximately 750 sq. per floor for a total of 1500 sq ft. I would put the stove in the basement and hope the heat will just rise through stair well and maybe a vent to heat the 1st and 2nd floor (does this type of heating work?). I am currently looking at harman tlc 2000 for about $1600 and after reading here the hitzer 30-95 ($1400 approximately?) may be a possibility(does this model need electric to operate) and also maybe a baker challenger (no idea of cost). Current heat is an oil central hot air furnace, but i can't see how to run a stove into the duct work without making a mess of it. Currently i use about 600 gallons of oil how much coal does this translate into? any guesses. I live in south central pa. near harrisburg. Thank you for your advice.
sharkman8810
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 82 ul
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 82 u.l.

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: CBT69 On: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:31 pm

Well, I can tell you about venting to get heat around the place.

Cold air wants to sink, hot to rise. So to get heat to your first and second floors, you need both a place for the hot air to get up, and another place for the cold to get down. Usually, your hot air supply is going to start at the cieling of the stove room, and end high on the wall of the room it goes to, where your cold air return is going to do the opposite. ONce you get the air moving, standard convection will take it from there. Not as fast as a forced air system, obviously, but also not dependant on anything other than physics to operate.
CBT69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman TLC-2000
Stove/Furnace Model: US STove franklin repro

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:21 pm

sharkman8810 wrote:Currently i use about 600 gallons of oil how much coal does this translate into?


Best bet? Put a stoker boiler in the basement next to your furnace.

About 3.3 tons, but the coal is more attractive. Where your from, that translates into about $600. :)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: grizzly2 On: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:23 pm

You have an answer to the heat distribution question, and I agree with it. I have a similar size and house layout as you. However, I located my stove in the livingroom :discuss: on the 1st floor. The stairs to the 2nd floor start in the living room about 12 feet from my Hitzer 30-95. There is a door at the top of the stairs. Obviously heating the 1st floor is easy. I occationally use a fan to circulate to the kitchen :shots: and bath :flush: , but usually don't. I don't mind a cool bedroom :shh: so I find the heat passing through the uninsulated livingroom ceiling is adequate. If it gets sub zero out with a breeze, I will open the stair door about 1/4 of the way about an hour before going to bed, then leave it open that much for the night.

I realize you said you want to put your stove in the cellar. What I want to point out is how much it simplifies things if you locate your stove in proper proximity to your stairway, and on the 1st floor. You would also need a door at the bottom or top of the stairs or else it will probably be warmer on the 2nd floor than you would like for it to be.

If you want to heat your whole house from the basement :down: , I think you will be more satisfied with a forced air coal furnace in the basement in place of, or in addition to the oil furnace. Some of the guys freqenting this forum are real "Crackerjacks" :idea: :verycool: with furncaces and can best advise you about them.

The Hitzer 30-95 does not need electricity to operate properly. However, the optional blower does help circulate the warm air, and it does of course require 110 volt power. It is a plug in deal, so you won't need to do any hard wiring to accomodate it. I bought the blower only because it was on the only 30-95 the dealer had in stock. It works great, but is a little louder than I like :band: (even with the included rheostat set on low speed) while I'm relaxing in the living room.
:smoke:
grizzly2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 30 - 95
Coal Size/Type: pea and nut/ anthracite
Other Heating: Jotul #3 wood stove in garage. Oil backup in house. Electric backup in house.

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:46 pm

sharkman8810 wrote:I am trying to find the right size and type/model of stove for my circumstances.


A few things about your circumstances would help. Here are a few thoughts.
Do you have a budget limit?
Do you mind a little mess in your home?
Can you live with warm and cool rooms or do you prefer the evenness of central heat?
Do you lose power frequently? If so, are those periods long or very brief?
Are you willing to cut holes in your ceilings and floors?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: sharkman8810 On: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:15 pm

A few things about your circumstances would help. Here are a few thoughts.

Do you have a budget limit? Yes no more than $2,000 and less is better.

Do you mind a little mess in your home? Not really it has to be in the basement, that is the only place to hook into the chimney.

Can you live with warm and cool rooms or do you prefer the evenness of central heat? 1st floor can be warmer than the 2nd as we like cooler bedrooms and they are upstairs.

Do you lose power frequently? No, but i prefer it to not need power to get any heat. odviously fans will require electric, but i don't want computer controlled burner.
If so, are those periods long or very brief? If we do it will probably be a doozy. we're getting quite a bit of ice storms.

Are you willing to cut holes in your ceilings and floors? I'll be glad to listen to suggestions.

I have a fair amount of holes, as i have central air ducting, with the oil furnace.

I was thinking that if I adjust a few cold air returns that are just sheet tin nailed to the base of parallel rafters I could get the heat from the stove up to the first floor by removing a little bit of tin and have it go up the cold air return vent.

another bit of info is that my first floor is 8.5' ceilings and some of my second story is 7.5' ceiling. The house dates 1900's. the basement is about 6.5' high has concrete floor and stone masonry walls.

I think (realize) that this is just going to be a supplemental system to heat the house, as it isnt going to be even enough and may not heat the 2nd story enough. but the more heat i get from this the more i save. My oil isnt so terrible that i feel the complete need to rip it out, besides the wife wont touch the stove, and i want to be able to leave for extended
periods of time.

thank you guys for taking the time to help me.
sharkman8810
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 82 ul
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 82 u.l.

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:32 am

Well, thats good info.

If you can do most of the work or have a talented friend that doesn't mind helping, I would recommend a used stoker furnace. That could easily come in at or well below your target budget of $2000. They are out there.

Next would be a used hand fired furnace, cost about $800-1200.

I would guess that having either one installed could run about $800-1200.

Then the stove.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: coalstoves On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:20 am

For all intents and purpose it sounds like you would be best off to supplement your Oil heat with the addition of a stove on the first floor .

You have a tight budget and limited experience with coal some of the price estimates I read are extremely conservative given todays prices for material and labor I have a cousin who paid close to $800 for a single radiator to be added to the system this year .

Coal is an alternative Fuel and with it comes added work and responsibilities , in the old days when most had coal fired boilers many people had furnace men who tended to the daily maintenance and ash removal, it can be too much for some folks given available time or health concerns today the thought of hauling out 2 or 3 tubs of ash and filling the feed bin with a few hundred pounds of coal might not sound bad but keep an eye on the future it could get old or impossible quickly .

I think given your modest budget for the project with a bit of shopping and a little work you could prolly get a used stoker stove refurb it a bit and tie into a chimney ( prolly against code ) or rig a power venter and learn the ropes, I would install it on the first floor and avoid the basement idea seems the basement installation guys are always forcing or tweaking to get enough heat out of the stove and up to where it's needed this type of setup will prolly require about 2 tons of coal for an entire heating season Oct - March and reduce your oil use by ½ to ⅔ while raising the comfort level in the entire house like you wouldn't believe . Some extra work during the year no doubt but big savings.

I have used a system like this for years and years it works best for me so I pass it on for you to consider
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: sharkman8810 On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:45 am

I realize hooking it on the first floor where you need the heat is good, but i cant access the chimney this way, as the kitchen is on the first floor by the chimney. I woould have to remodel the kitchen to do this, and that would be prohibitively expensive, and get me shot by my wife. I have permission to put a nice pellet stove in the dining room, but that only requires a dryer type vent(3" pipe). However these type pellet stoves are over my budget and I am not sure if it would save me much money with the amount of pellets consumed.

I think of it as supplement in the basement to keep oil consumption to a minimum. Should i maybe look at stoves that can heat in the 2200 sq ft. range instead of the 1800 sq. ft. to get enough heat? I realize the work involved with loading and ash, and i don't think i'll mind it, and if i get tired, i'll let it go out take a break, then refire it a bit later. This is a reason i am leaving the oil in place too.

coal stoves you really seem on the same page as i am starting to think. If i get 2/3 savings I'd be happy.
sharkman8810
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 82 ul
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 82 u.l.

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: spc On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:23 am

Can you fit a coal stove in the dining room? All you need is a power vent piped to an outside wall. Where you can fit a pellet stove you should be able to fit a coal stove. Getting a stove to heat a second floor from the basement without serious duct work is a tall order.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:50 am

I agree about putting it on the first floor with a power vent to warm you house the best. I have my hand-fired stove in the basement but it's in a finished family room with an open stairway to the main flloor & I have cut vents in the floor above too. I will put in a plug for my stove, the Harman TLC-2000
http://www.harmanstoves.com/callouts.asp?id=7
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
which is hand fired & doesn't require electricity to operate. (of course your power vent will) As far as locating any coalstove in your dining room, be aware that you cant avoid a little dust so your wife might not like that idea. (as the old saying goes...."Wives.....You cant live with them &...........You can't kill em!" (just joking to all the wives)

edit: scratch that , Not sure if you can power vent a TLC2000 but you can with it's sibling
http://www.harmanstoves.com/callouts.asp?id=4
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
which is a stoker & thus would require electricity to run
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: gambler On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:07 pm

I have my stoker stove in my dining room and I am totally happy with it there. Very little dirt caused by the stove if you are careful with loading the coal and emptying the ash bin. A few years ago I tried a corn stove in my basement and was not happy trying to get the heat distributed in my 2000 sqft 2 story house. I then moved the corn stove to the dining room and was happy with it. The only drawback is you don't get much heat in the basement. My basement stays at about 50* during the winter months but I have a natural gas heater down there if I am planning on spending a lot of time in the basement I fire it up. When I installed the coal stove I also put up a prefab chimney from my dining room straight up thru the roof instead of a power vent. My home is open in design and The heat gets well distributed through the house. My thoughts are if you want a stove keep it on the main floor of the house. If you want it in the basement buy a furnace or boiler.

edit: I am home from work today with the flu. It is really nice to sit in front of the coal stove when I get the chills and still be able to watch tv. Another plus for having the stove on the main floor.
Last edited by gambler on Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: WNY On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:26 pm

We heated our other house completely with our Keystoker (Stoker) on the first floor, upstairs was 5-8 degrees cooler. But it worked fine.

Our new (older) and bigger Victorian, I had to put a bigger stove (Hyfire i) in the basment and ducted it to the first floor, it still gets cooler on the 2nd floor, but I don't have it cranked really high, about 67-68 on the first floor, second floor around 63-65, but it does get cooler if it gets really cold outside (below 20). Presently it can't put more than around 68-70 degrees without really cranking for extended periods of time and I don't want to run it that hot, the basement gets 70-75+ if I do. I set it on 67-68 and it maintains really well.

As an option, If you can harness the radiant heat off the stove with a heat jacket of some type, you will get much more heat going to the first floor. I will be adding one in the near future on mine to harness more heat from the stove to go upstairs.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: daveuz On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:10 pm

Here is my 2 cents. As others have mentioned look for a used Stoker stove (probably the easiest to get going correctly). That should be way below your budget. Hook it up in your basement as you had planned. Now after you get it going and you and your wife can see how it works you can make decide on the next step like adding a duct with either to the existing ducts or to a hole in the floor above the stove. You can also look into adding a water coil inside the stove to help heat save on the water heater bill. You can add to your new found "hobby" as you go. Hey maybe your wife will be so impressed with the stove you can make provisions to move it to the first floor next year. In my opinion don't get wrapped up with alot of little details just make sure you have a nice safe spot to put it and go from there. (By the way I have nothing against hand fed stoves but the stoker is really really user friendly)
daveuz
 

Re: Stove selection for my house.

PostBy: sharkman8810 On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:30 pm

Well guys i did some looking today and a little measuring. My house is more like 26x31.5 a floor, so the math is about 800 a floor. I went and looked at the hitzer stoves. They seem fine to me, well built. prices varying on model go from approx $1250to $1600 for the 254 and 30-95 models and from $1450 to $1800 for the 354 and 50-95 models. The dealer is giving about 10% off on on stock and if i want the model 50-93 that is the running floor model (he used this year in the show room) list is $1780 i'd get it for about $1500. I'm really considering it. They do seem like large units. Also he made me some offers on a few used stoves he had about. One is a gibralter with brass all round it, it seemed in good working order (i dont know much about it though) but all the handles seemed good and the doors swung fine, brick and grates was in good shape etc. for $695 approx 45k-55k btu. Also he had a pair of old looking colebrookdale darbys. they seemed like neat old stoves and i like the looks etc. but i dont care for the tool/handle setup. he wanted $595 or them they seemed in decent shape. If i had the money i'd get one of them for a hunting camp i go too. I dont know if he is asking to much for them or not.
sharkman8810
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 82 ul
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 82 u.l.

Visit Hitzer Stoves