Added secondary air on a 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:16 am

blrman07 wrote:There seems to be a common price theme.....$2.51

Just sayin....

Yes, that seems to be the lowest price of anything on the site.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:36 am

SWPaDon wrote:Air dampers and the carriage bolt can be had relatively cheap here if it helps anyone: http://www.usstovefactorydirect.com/ind ... 139&page=4


Looking at the price list the air damper is 48 and change 2.50 for a .50 jamb nut is just silly as well. I have less than 3 bucks for 2 of them.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:45 am

ddahlgren wrote:
SWPaDon wrote:Air dampers and the carriage bolt can be had relatively cheap here if it helps anyone: http://www.usstovefactorydirect.com/ind ... 139&page=4


Looking at the price list the air damper is 48 and change 2.50 for a .50 jamb nut is just silly as well. I have less than 3 bucks for 2 of them.

Yes, the air damper is 48 dollars, and the carriage bolt that fits it is 2.51. I posted this for anyone that wants one, but can't make their own damper. The best thing is, they actually give the bolt size, length and thread pitch so anyone could get their own bolt and jam nut at a local hardware store.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:42 am

Did a light off tonight and from what I learned last year and playing with tonight still have blues after 8 hours with Blaschack nut pea kindling LOL mix. Only 4 inches or so tall now but still there. For 4 hours filled the glass and out the baffle with them and yes drives stack temp up but heat that would be lost forever and get no use from it. If you get hung up on stack temp it might be a loss but if the blues went out the stack temp would go down and heat output as well with same settings. I am calling it a win if I convert more hydrocarbons into heat. I am declaring this mod a win!
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:48 am

ddahlgren wrote:Did a light off tonight and from what I learned last year and playing with tonight still have blues after 8 hours with Blaschack nut pea kindling LOL mix. Only 4 inches or so tall now but still there. For 4 hours filled the glass and out the baffle with them and yes drives stack temp up but heat that would be lost forever and get no use from it. If you get hung up on stack temp it might be a loss but if the blues went out the stack temp would go down and heat output as well with same settings. I am calling it a win if I convert more hydrocarbons into heat. I am declaring this mod a win!


Great Job! I like it... if for nothing else, this overcomes having to keep the secondary air channels around the rim of the 404 firepot clear (a major issue for people like me and those of us who load up the 404 chocker block full & banked for extended burn times). Your also correct that coal quality plays such a HUGE roll in heating, efficiency, burn time & ash (I know we all know this here but the simple fact is 95% of consumer's do not know this lil' fact... some coal actually WANTS a lot more secondary air for the best burn (this would be lessor quality coals)... so clearly you have discovered that (at least this year, this vein) Blaschak is better than Kimmels ;) actually between you and me (I have never found Kimmels to be as good as Blaschak).

as far as the steel plate goes... I can recall working on used stoves was a lot different than new steel (so im assuming your stove has been heat treated wonderfully making it like kryptonite to drill toothy ) ... weird but pieces like the heat shroud and thinner plate drilled so much easier than that damb Crane combustion chamber :mad: (Im not sure why... almost like the carbon factor is simply different between thicknesses :? )
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:56 pm

DCrane had to buy a carbide tipped drill to go thru it. Cobalt and Ti coated were laughed at. Like you I pile it up above the firebox and the holes get plugged easy. I did some back to back testing and they do work close and blues either go out or get very small open and they come back and open too much and they lean away from inlet.

Next mod planned is potential heated air intakes with box tubing running down sides and feeding ash pan area on each side. If this sounds like a bad plan say so. It would be pretty easy to do I think. Maybe over the summer as it will easily kill a day drilling this thing to mount it all up.

I got thinking about the cracked piece of glass and tried hard to remember when I noticed it. It was not right after loading the stove and a hot wood fire as I have done the same thing many times with no ill effects. I am wondering if all the radiant heat from extended blues took it out. Possibly taking window screens out was a bad idea. Oh well just thinking out loud.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:08 am

ddahlgren wrote:DCrane had to buy a carbide tipped drill to go thru it. Cobalt and Ti coated were laughed at. Like you I pile it up above the firebox and the holes get plugged easy. I did some back to back testing and they do work close and blues either go out or get very small open and they come back and open too much and they lean away from inlet.

Next mod planned is potential heated air intakes with box tubing running down sides and feeding ash pan area on each side. If this sounds like a bad plan say so. It would be pretty easy to do I think. Maybe over the summer as it will easily kill a day drilling this thing to mount it all up.

I got thinking about the cracked piece of glass and tried hard to remember when I noticed it. It was not right after loading the stove and a hot wood fire as I have done the same thing many times with no ill effects. I am wondering if all the radiant heat from extended blues took it out. Possibly taking window screens out was a bad idea. Oh well just thinking out loud.


the ceramic was not cracked by blues (unless that glass was icy cold to start and BAM instantly applied a torch to it LOL), it could have been over tight glass straps (on a corner usually), or an inadvertent slam to the door.

I love your ideas about heated secondary air being used to feed the coal bed... ill be honest, my father never ever tested base burning concepts (to be very honest not many people left in the entire world are educated about the engineering our forefathers used to burn coal), this forum and several antique stove shops are about the only place you learn of such magical feats ;)

Your 404 (because it does not have any decorative kits applied to it, is perfect for testing some of these elements your trying :clap: )
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:33 pm

DCrane my plan after some measuring is to run a piece of 1X2 steel box tubing though aluminum sounds tempting that will go from the edge of the top of the stove to the bottom in the ash pan area just about direct center on both sides. I am not looking forward to drilling the holes as I think I need 12 six per side.

On another note not sure how weather is going to work out as going to 13F tonight and currently 26F and running 500F on stove top. Last year we had some -17F nights and ran knocking on the door of 700F to keep up. Did give a good inspection this fall and no damage found to firebox so while I don't want to do that again what is the upper practical limit of a 404? I am thinking of getting one of those heat reclaimers (magic heat for 200 bucks) as the internal stack temp is pretty high so seems like a good idea. Not fond of using the electricity though fuel oil might be cheaper as a kicker.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:08 pm

ddahlgren wrote:DCrane my plan after some measuring is to run a piece of 1X2 steel box tubing though aluminum sounds tempting that will go from the edge of the top of the stove to the bottom in the ash pan area just about direct center on both sides. I am not looking forward to drilling the holes as I think I need 12 six per side.

On another note not sure how weather is going to work out as going to 13F tonight and currently 26F and running 500F on stove top. Last year we had some -17F nights and ran knocking on the door of 700F to keep up. Did give a good inspection this fall and no damage found to firebox so while I don't want to do that again what is the upper practical limit of a 404? I am thinking of getting one of those heat reclaimers (magic heat for 200 bucks) as the internal stack temp is pretty high so seems like a good idea. Not fond of using the electricity though fuel oil might be cheaper as a kicker.


ya... 650 stove top temp is what I run (the only thing that seems to take the hit when running constant temps pushing that range is that damb firepot :mad: )... its always the middle of the firepot just under the top baffle plate to the rear that begins to show warping... 650 or below keeps it safe... you go over that and its a matter of time my friend!

I would take the pot out each season and reverse it to try to keep the heating equal.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:49 pm

After last years adventures the back was still flat and the same amount of bow in the front as I reversed it when you suggested when I installed it there were only a few occasions. As long as oil stays low will use it as the kicker.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404