Added secondary air on a 404

Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:35 pm

Stolen from a previous post I made to avoid typing it all out again...

A couple days ago finally got one of the 2 adjustable secondary air dampers installed on my 404. It seems to help a bit under two different conditions the first with a fresh load of Kimmels coal. Wow serious blues from the top of coal bed to top of stove and for hours I quit looking and checking at 4 and ignored until 6 hours and going down so closed it off and used the standard amount as built. It allowed me to cut primary air by 35% and get the same stove temp of 450 that I was shooting for so a coal savings with Kimmels and a bit finer as well. With the Blaschack not nearly as much a difference but some so the need seems it varies by coal as much as anything else. Running slow and cool for me stove top of 150-175. Cracking the MPD to about 20% open from full closed and opening secondary seemed to keep the stove top temps manageable and still have a decent draft. I am assuming I am sending more heat up the chimney and less to the stove but primary air barely open so doubt I am wasting coal just avoiding a time consuming clean and start from scratch.

In the end was it needed I would have to say 98% of the time no is it handy yes another tuning tool to suit a particular need of the coal being used or the outside temp. I am a fairly competent engineer and willing to admit if I just wasted my time and I think this was not a waste and if nothing else a teaching tool.

OK DCrane what kind of steel did your dad use to build this thing? I needed a carbide tipped drill to do the install as coated cobalt drill were laughed at. I only have a few left hand cutting drill bits and clearly marked but had to double check as nothing but the carbide tipped one would bite in and drill a hole.

I can send a pic if anyone is interested as well. Under the aluminum cap are 4 1/4 holes. My cheap camera has yet to capture the blues and do a good job. They seem to be 50% invisible compared to what you see sitting in front of it.

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ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:57 pm

So you'll put one on each side? Can you get a pic of where it enters inside the fire box?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:10 pm

Do these help?

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ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:41 pm

Yeah that's neat. So the air comes thru those 4 little holes? How big are they?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:08 pm

Lightning wrote:Yeah that's neat. So the air comes thru those 4 little holes? How big are they?


1/4 inch holes I was going to do 6 but thought the better of it just to start the experiment.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:26 pm

Nice DD :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:54 pm

Cool maybe you could get a pic of the secondary air feeding the blues for us.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:35 am

Lightning wrote:Cool maybe you could get a pic of the secondary air feeding the blues for us.


Wish I could but every time I try to take a pic of them my digital camera only shows about half of them and the longer I try to get them in focus the less that show up. Are digital cameras IR sensitive?
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:10 am

My CANON is--I gave up trying :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:50 am

freetown fred wrote:My CANON is--I gave up trying :)


Go figure mine is a Cannon 570
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: blrman07 On: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:03 am

If your using your flash try turning it off. The intense light will wash out the blues if you can see them at all. Dark room with no flash is where they will appear the best.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:45 am

Tried all that with no luck to be honest and in reality it has not taken a good pic in a year so time to toss it and start over.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:23 am

After a few days playing with secondary air mod I have noticed a few things.
Mechanical the thread fit between stud and adjuster needs a looser thread fit as it wants to gall. It is going to be close to 60 in a couple of days so will just unscrew it off and let secondary run wide open and run a die down the stud to remove a tiny bit and if needed install a stainless thread insert in the aluminum adjuster along with some lubr-iplate on the threads. Too much precision is not always a good thing I guess.

When open the blues cover the entire bed of coal rather than a sheet of them by the fixed secondary air inlets.
The ash is much finer and easy to shake down I still need to rake under the grates a bit but a much shorter task and most times shaking will put some coals that are glowing in the ash pan and never happened before. My coal varies so much in size any estimate in coal savings is a fantasy but tending is less work. I have to say tonight's blend of pea to rice is very sluggish at best but does burn more or less but does not want to. It seems like 30 lbs a day for 35 to 45 degrees outside.

I am thinking it makes for a slightly better stove but if you have to pay to have the parts made depending on cost it might be a break even so far. If I could get a verifiable read on coal use that thought might change. I would think finer ash means more complete burn so there is that part. How much it is worth is a bit of speculation. The current coal sizing and quality makes it a guess based on ashes and more like a witch doctor playing with chicken bones to foretell the future.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:19 am

Air dampers and the carriage bolt can be had relatively cheap here if it helps anyone: http://www.usstovefactorydirect.com/ind ... 139&page=4
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: Added secondary air on a 404

PostBy: blrman07 On: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:56 am

There seems to be a common price theme.....$2.51

Just sayin....
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.