which coal boiler to get

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: e.alleg On: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:33 pm

whew! I never knew heating with coal could be so complicated. I didn't want to get involved as I'm not an engineer, but just take a look at what thousands of outdoor wood boiler guys are using to heat rickety old farmhouses. They are using the cheap 1" pex pipe with a Taco 007 pump and it works fine. Don't forget the hotter the boiler water the more heat it carries. More coal used too, but look at the cost comparison of buying the most expensive materials up front vs. efficiency losses and you'll probably never save that much coal to cover the added expense. BTW now is a good time to buy pex pipe, nobody likes sitting on rolls of it all summer.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:04 am

If I remember correctly, the human body gives off about 400 BTU..... the heat loss for my dining room is about 4,600 BTU.... Let's see.... can I get about about a dozen of you deep thinkers to drop by each Saturday for hydronic study? :)
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: Bob On: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:00 am

1" Pex pipe and 1" Pex Al Pex Pipe have substantially different inside diameters. You will get substantially more flow with the Pex Al Pex. 1" Pex Al Pex is nearly the same size as 1 1/4" Pex.

Pex Al Pex inside diameter is: 1.03 inches (for Kitec brand pipe)

1" Pex pipe inside diameter is: 0.87 inces (for Raupex brand pipe)

1 1/4" Pex pipe inside diameter is 1.07 inches (for Raupex brand pipe)

An additional advantage of Pex Al Pex is that it is much more demensionally stable with temperature change than Pex pipe. The oxygen barrier in Pex Al Pex pipe is interior to the pipe and not subject to damage from handling and installation while the oxygen barrier on Pex pipe is simply a coating on the outside of the pipe and is subject to damage as the pipe expands and contracts or when it is pulled during installation.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite


Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:54 am

Thanks Bob,, I didn't know that, Ithought all of the Pex products were described by inside dimension. I definitely like working with the Pex-al-Pex, you can straighten it, or bend it and it will stay put.. the regular Pex can be like wrestling a snake.. :D

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: 26Weeks On: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:55 pm

Greg L, Let me ask you should I go with the continues loop or the keystoker comes with a hotwater coil and the Harman is a add on. If I want to heat hot water in non home heating time then the loop has to run to heat DHW???? Thanks Brian Two pex or four pex?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
26Weeks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman / Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: SF-250 Combo - KA6 Boiler

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: 26Weeks On: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:20 pm

As I get this new system up and running Coalburner I have been reading your articles for about two years but have never talked to you one on one are you out there will need coal??
26Weeks wrote:Greg L, Let me ask you should I go with the continues loop or the keystoker comes with a hotwater coil and the Harman is a add on. If I want to heat hot water in non home heating time then the loop has to run to heat DHW???? Thanks Brian Two pex or four pex?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
26Weeks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman / Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: SF-250 Combo - KA6 Boiler

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: 26Weeks On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:56 pm

stokerscot wrote:To keep the wiring simple, these are the wires that I would run from house to out building.
1. 4-#14 wires. green,white,black,red. Power for the boiler(black) and an additional circuit for lights,recepticles, whatever(red). That's two 15amp circuits. Or 3-#12 instead to give one 20 amp circuit.
2. 6-# 18 wires, three pair. One pair to use as a T-T jumper for summertime domestic water operation. Two pair for spare.
You can make it much more complicated but this is simplistic. Use thhn wire sold at the Depot or Lowes. Have them cut to length. Add extra on to measurement as contrary to what they say, there is no wire stretcher. Hope this helps. :) Scott

The #14 wire should that be solid or straned wire.Were moving forward. Thanks Brian
26Weeks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman / Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: SF-250 Combo - KA6 Boiler

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:36 pm

Hello Brian, how far away from the house's boiler and DHW heater will the Keystoker be?? If you have say 100' of Pex in the ground, then you will have 200' of pex in the circulation loop.

So if you don't have the water circulating continously, then you will have a significant amount of cool to cold water that will need to be purged and heated each time you use DHW. Sou you may have to wait 5-10 minutes for hot water, depending on the length of the pex, how long since hot water was used, and how hot the coal boiler is at that time [begining aor end of a cycle].

The best method would be to install an indirect hot water heater, and use an aquastat in this heater to turn on the circulator to the Keystoker.. And don't buy the water coil for the coal boiler, save the money and use it towards the Indirect hot water heater. The regular water loop for heat will be used to heat the indirect hot water heater,


Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: Sting On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:54 pm

OR>>>>>>

You could install a super insulated tank in the house basement - say 250 to 500 gallon - dependent on use and recharge goal.

Heat that to 200 degrees and use it to heat your DHW to 125 - when the tank gets to 140 - you refire your coal boiler and recharge the mass storage tank with energy.

In theory you could idle the boiler all week at 140 to 160 degrees but then once every (two??) days -- again dependent on DHW use and storage - you could ramp the girl up to 180-200 heat the loop and charge the storage tank...


opps there I go with primary / secondary piping again... Sorry - its a habit I guess :)
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: 26Weeks On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:14 pm

LsFarm wrote:Hello Brian, how far away from the house's boiler and DHW heater will the Keystoker be?? If you have say 100' of Pex in the ground, then you will have 200' of pex in the circulation loop.

So if you don't have the water circulating continously, then you will have a significant amount of cool to cold water that will need to be purged and heated each time you use DHW. Sou you may have to wait 5-10 minutes for hot water, depending on the length of the pex, how long since hot water was used, and how hot the coal boiler is at that time [begining aor end of a cycle].

The best method would be to install an indirect hot water heater, and use an aquastat in this heater to turn on the circulator to the Keystoker.. And don't buy the water coil for the coal boiler, save the money and use it towards the Indirect hot water heater. The regular water loop for heat will be used to heat the indirect hot water heater.


Greg L

Greg I ordered 100 feet of pex-al-pex today. The building will require about 60 feet with one run or I could do it with two 50 foot runs. But I think that I will go with one and sell whats left over. Then go with two flat plate heaters is that what is meant by a indirect water heater? One heater intersepting return water to propane boiler and the other to heat DHW. Brian
Last edited by 26Weeks on Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
26Weeks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman / Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: SF-250 Combo - KA6 Boiler

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:15 pm

Sting wrote:You could install a super insulated tank in the house basement - say 250 to 500 gallon - dependent on use and recharge goal.

Heat that to 200 degrees and use it to heat your DHW to 125 - when the tank gets to 140 - you refire your coal boiler and recharge the mass storage tank with energy.

In theory you could idle the boiler all week at 140 to 160 degrees but then once every (two??) days -- again dependent on DHW use and storage - you could ramp the girl up to 180-200 heat the loop and charge the storage tank...


TARM USA has a lot of stuff for heat storage, tanks and systems.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: 26Weeks On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:19 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
Sting wrote:You could install a super insulated tank in the house basement - say 250 to 500 gallon - dependent on use and recharge goal.

Heat that to 200 degrees and use it to heat your DHW to 125 - when the tank gets to 140 - you refire your coal boiler and recharge the mass storage tank with energy.

In theory you could idle the boiler all week at 140 to 160 degrees but then once every (two??) days -- again dependent on DHW use and storage - you could ramp the girl up to 180-200 heat the loop and charge the storage tank...


TARM USA has a lot of stuff for heat storage, tanks and systems.

I have a new propane hot water heater I was going to dump 180 degree water into it and use a mixing valve on the out going side? Brian
26Weeks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman / Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: SF-250 Combo - KA6 Boiler

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:31 pm

26Weeks wrote:I have a new propane hot water heater I was going to dump 180 degree water into it and use a mixing valve on the out going side? Brian


I would be careful if you have a well. Mixing valves can be problematic with high levels of hardness and require frequent maintenance to keep them working properly.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:44 pm

26Weeks wrote:
stokerscot wrote:To keep the wiring simple, these are the wires that I would run from house to out building.
1. 4-#14 wires. green,white,black,red. Power for the boiler(black) and an additional circuit for lights,recepticles, whatever(red). That's two 15amp circuits. Or 3-#12 instead to give one 20 amp circuit.
2. 6-# 18 wires, three pair. One pair to use as a T-T jumper for summertime domestic water operation. Two pair for spare.
You can make it much more complicated but this is simplistic. Use thhn wire sold at the Depot or Lowes. Have them cut to length. Add extra on to measurement as contrary to what they say, there is no wire stretcher. Hope this helps. :) Scott

The #14 wire should that be solid or straned wire.Were moving forward. Thanks Brian

Either or . They will both accomplish the purpose. If you don't have help, the stranded can be a Pita :) Scott
Btw, how big did you end up making your outbuilding?
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: which coal boiler to get

PostBy: Sting On: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:31 pm

26Weeks wrote:I have a new propane hot water heater I was going to dump 180 degree water into it and use a mixing valve on the out going side? Brian



Not big enough

and the HS Tarm equipment - while plug and play - it too darn expensive.

Figure big storage and use it to heat your DHW heater to 125 so you don't need to worry about the family pink parts when the problematic mixing valves fail.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas