Weight Loss Adventure

coalnewbie wrote:Just to put it in perspective

Yes, how we look at things does influence our decisions.

There are however other reasons beyond living longer, that make proper weight desireable.

You look better, feel better, have more agility, better hot weather tolerance. Doing anything just requires less effort. If you are way overweight as a male, then the reappearance of your male glory is bound to increase morale as you lose weight.

Statistics are funny things. They show that no obese people have died while climbing Mt. Everest, so if that is your ambition then get fat. Or maybe it is because they don't attempt it as they lose out on many activities, sex included.

Performance of young star athletes almost always falls off with weight gain beyond their ideal. I remember being amazed at how light footed the overweight Jackie Gleason was as a younger man, and how easily he could do comic pratfalls without injuring himself, but that stopped when in his fifties.

I don't believe the assertion in the link that overweight people live a bit longer than those of proper weight; something else is skewing the results. People of proper weight are far more likely to engage in doing things that might result in injury or even death, their lifestyle is just different and more inclusive.

The heavy weight of whatever age is more prone to diabetes and a whole lot of niggling ailments like back and joint problems from constant stress. Much easier to maneuver a lighter body.

Rather than mortality figures as a whole I would like to see the difference in people over fifty when overweight. At age 83 ten pounds makes a big difference in what I can do or not, even something as simple as regaining balance quickly in the event of a small trip over something.

Enjoyable response as usual but incomplete. That is enough for a coal board.

franco b wrote:I don't believe the assertion in the link that overweight people live a bit longer than those of proper weight; something else is skewing the results.

Many “links” like that are total garbage. It is very difficult to do a statistically valid study which eliminates all the skewing factors. And that is if you are TRYING to do a valid study, as opposed to many so-called studies that set out to prove a particular point and – surprise! – end up finding the result they hoped for.

The Obesity paradox is well known, if you google it you will find lots of info and studies. The fact is that the people at the extremes die the soonest. My BMI is around 29 – 30 right on the border between obese and overweight. My goal would be to shoot for 25 – 26, on the border of ideal and overweight. That is what I consider a good weight and just my opinion, everyone is free to disagree.

Coalnewbie, I agree we are over medicated and applaud your resistance to giving in to big pharma as long as you remain consistent. That means no boner pills for you. When the noodle goes limp that’s it, out to pasture.

You don't have to limp out to pasture if you need your blood pressure regulated, then just deal with the side effects. The pills will also be covered by insurance.

gaw wrote:The Obesity paradox is well known, if you google it you will find lots of info and studies. The fact is that the people at the extremes die the soonest.

I had no idea this existed and as suggested did some reading and made some tentative conclusions.

Body mass index (BMI) is not that reliable an indicator because belly fat is more harmful than fat in other areas.
Studies are mostly of people who have had heart failure of some type and not healthy people. Lots of ifs, ands, and buts, to conclusions.
Belly fat is bad, fat ass less bad. I remember reading years ago that Bushman women often had enormous protruding buttocks (steatopygia). That might have been natures way of storing fat in a more healthy way.

After reading, the conclusion that seemed to me to make the best sense, is the following:

" Right now, there’s still lots of speculation and few definitive answers regarding the obesity paradox. But what hasn’t changed is that being overweight and obese are risk factors for chronic diseases—and belly fat specifically may be a contributor."

“There’s no question that if you are overweight or obese you have a higher risk of heart disease and diabetes. There will be people who fall into the metabolically healthy category, but it’s not a large proportion of people who are overweight or obese,” says Manson."

“If you start early by encouraging a healthy weight through the lifespan, you are going to have a lower incidence of diabetes and heart failure to begin with,” she continues. “Maintaining a healthy weight throughout life is the optimal approach to preventing chronic disease. That would be the public health recommendation.”

Melissa is a nursing home RN. Over the years we've been together she's worked in five nursing homes in north eastern and central NYS. I've been to each of the places many times. Plus many times to other nursing homes with my grand parents, parents and aunts.

It is extremely rare to see any of the elderly that the height/weight/age charts would consider close to normal for their height and age. And many are in their 80's and 90's. Yet, finding anyone thin that old, is very rare.

Looking at how many elderly are over weight and how they have lived so long, being over weight does not look like the evil that those weight charts would lead me to believe.

I know many friends and relatives that are trim and exercise regularly, but have had serious medical problems. What they have in common is they lead stressful lives, both in jobs, commuting to work and their "keeping up with the Jones" type neighborhoods.

In my experience, stress kills more than fat. Over millions of years, we've been designed by nature to store fat, but not handle the daily doses of stress that comes with a lot of modern life styles, as more and more of our population moves into urban living.

Paul

franco b wrote:

gaw wrote:The Obesity paradox is well known, if you google it you will find lots of info and studies. The fact is that the people at the extremes die the soonest.

I had no idea this existed and as suggested did some reading and made some tentative conclusions.

Body mass index (BMI) is not that reliable an indicator because belly fat is more harmful than fat in other areas.
Studies are mostly of people who have had heart failure of some type and not healthy people. Lots of ifs, ands, and buts, to conclusions.
Belly fat is bad, fat ass less bad. I remember reading years ago that Bushman women often had enormous protruding buttocks (steatopygia). That might have been natures way of storing fat in a more healthy way.

After reading, the conclusion that seemed to me to make the best sense, is the following:

" Right now, there’s still lots of speculation and few definitive answers regarding the obesity paradox. But what hasn’t changed is that being overweight and obese are risk factors for chronic diseases—and belly fat specifically may be a contributor."

“There’s no question that if you are overweight or obese you have a higher risk of heart disease and diabetes. There will be people who fall into the metabolically healthy category, but it’s not a large proportion of people who are overweight or obese,” says Manson."

“If you start early by encouraging a healthy weight through the lifespan, you are going to have a lower incidence of diabetes and heart failure to begin with,” she continues. “Maintaining a healthy weight throughout life is the optimal approach to preventing chronic disease. That would be the public health recommendation.”

No argument from me I would not use the obese paradox as an argument to being fat or not wanting to lose a few.

Many people have no idea what obese looks like. When I tell people I’m a couple of pounds away from being obese they think I’m nuts. Most football players would probably fall into the obese or overweight category. The people we see riding the scooter through Wal-Mart are the morbidly obese and they are on the extreme so the paradox does not include them.

Sunny Boy wrote:Looking at how many elderly are over weight and how they have lived so long, being over weight does not look like the evil that those weight charts would lead me to believe.

The flaw in that argument is that you are looking at people who need nursing home care. There might be many more even older who still live at home.

I do agree that stress is a killer.

franco b wrote:

Sunny Boy wrote:Looking at how many elderly are over weight and how they have lived so long, being over weight does not look like the evil that those weight charts would lead me to believe.

The flaw in that argument is that you are looking at people who need nursing home care. There might be many more even older who still live at home.

I do agree that stress is a killer.

That may be. However, what I've also seen outside of nursing homes, I can list far more "pleasingly plump" overweight elderly that made it well into their 90's, than I can those who would be considered ideal weight that reached those advanced ages.

And if you look at the many height/weight/ age charts chronologically, there is a more leeway for being overweight in the later charts. In other words as they learned more about how weight affects us, the newer charts are revised to allow more weight as acceptable.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about the morbidly obese, but just in the overweight to obese range.

Three of my friends that fit into the ideal weight range, have battled cancer. Two are in their 50's, jog every morning and are thin and fit. All three have, or had stressful jobs.

My twin sisters. The one near ideal weight had cancer. The other is obese and has not had the health issues of her thinner twin. My older brother, thin, active, and has had cancer. He's now on heart and high blood pressure medicines. Me, I fall into the overweight category and no health issues.

I'm less fearful of being overweight than I am the stress of worrying about being over weight.

Paul

Sunny Boy wrote:I'm less fearful of being overweight than I am the stress of worrying about being over weight.

Good point. Look how long this guy has been around, and still looking youthful.

Jack Sprat could eat no fat.
His wife could eat no lean.
And so between them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean.

I wonder how them Sprat folks made out in later years.

At 5' 10.5" &180# avg, with winter time pounds adding 5-8 extra & then shed that each spring/summer season,i have never had a doctor tell me to lose xx pounds or I will die in 2-3 yrs. BUT,stress......... I get upset & frustrated with "stupid " people,idiot drivers,folks with no common sense , our doctor tells me that all this "anger" as he classifies it,is destroying my kidneys & liver,if left unchanged..... 2-3 yrs till they enter the toxic zone & kill me dead. So..... I need to learn how to laugh at the "stupid idiots with no common sense" or ignore them totally,somehow cut back on stress in my life so my organs live healthy longer & allow me to live healthy longer. One can get a heart attack from toxins released by a failing liver. So I will try to keep my weight around 180# without getting frustrated about it,try to chill when dealing with idiots, enjoy time off from the labors of life & enjoy keeping our cats company more.

windyhill4.2 wrote:I get upset & frustrated with "stupid " people,idiot drivers,folks with no common sense , our doctor tells me that all this "anger" as he classifies it,is destroying my kidneys & liver,if left unchanged..... So..... I need to learn how to laugh at the "stupid idiots with no common sense" or ignore them totally

I am a little like you, most people are, but not nearly so extreme. One incentive I have to ignore them is that more and more of them now carry firearms, so I need to mellow out and avoid confrontation. You might think I'm kidding. I'm not.

rberq wrote:

windyhill4.2 wrote:I get upset & frustrated with "stupid " people,idiot drivers,folks with no common sense , our doctor tells me that all this "anger" as he classifies it,is destroying my kidneys & liver,if left unchanged..... So..... I need to learn how to laugh at the "stupid idiots with no common sense" or ignore them totally

I am a little like you, most people are, but not nearly so extreme. One incentive I have to ignore them is that more and more of them now carry firearms, so I need to mellow out and avoid confrontation. You might think I'm kidding. I'm not.

I'm a lot like Windy.