Pentagon cancels release of controversial Iraq report

spc wrote:

stockingfull wrote:David Koresh thought he "heard the voice of God" too.

No he heard a voice from the

Not true!! I never spoke to him! (But I do believe you hear voices, but just not The Voice Of Reason)

spc wrote:

stockingfull wrote:David Koresh thought he "heard the voice of God" too.

No he heard a voice from the

Really? What makes you so sure you know the difference?

stockingfull wrote:

spc wrote:

stockingfull wrote:David Koresh thought he "heard the voice of God" too.

No he heard a voice from the

Really? What makes you so sure you know the difference?

Trust me.

stockingfull wrote:

spc wrote:

stockingfull wrote:David Koresh thought he "heard the voice of God" too.

No he heard a voice from the

Really? What makes you so sure you know the difference?

Just ignore his posts from now on stockingfull. He cant be reasoned with & is just not worth wasting time over. Most of the members here are good guys that are worth having an adult debate with......Save your arguments for them.

[quote="spc"Trust me.[/quote]



I just can't hear you anymore spc......Have a nice life.

Devil5052 wrote:Just ignore his posts from now on stockingfull. He cant be reasoned with & is just not worth wasting time over. Most of the members here are good guys that are worth having an adult debate with......Save your arguments for them.

Come on Devil, I'm a good guy.

This is getting tedious. You both are shaping personal agendas into current events and both are wrong.

Spc has confused about 3 dozen arab parties that would kill each other before they got to an American and Devil is measuring column inches of media (filled with worthless fluff) for bias.

The combo creates the average guy on the street. Can we talk about coal now?

Charlie Z wrote:This is getting tedious. You both are shaping personal agendas into current events and both are wrong.

Spc has confused about 3 dozen arab parties that would kill each other before they got to an American and Devil is measuring column inches of media (filled with worthless fluff) for bias.

The combo creates the average guy on the street. Can we talk about coal now?

Charlie its like tv if you don't like what you are watching click to another channel.
This is:
General & Off Topic Posts
Politics, Fun stuff and anything else that doesn't relate to coal. Please keep it civil.

SPC, it's alright, you played much nicer with them than alot of us and you still get dissed.

You can't win, they believe that Josef and Karl have the answers that we stupid Capitalists can't understand. We say independent thought and hard work will make for a better society, you make a successful business and hire people and so on and so on. They believe that the Government knows best and that independent thought is counterproductive to the collective society. Hard work will set you free, but hard work is not for selfish means, its for the common good as a whole, even the lazy should benefit from your labor, kinda like Unions except they fly flags with a Hammer and Sickle instead of Horses and carriages.

Devil, it's interesting that you find something I say offensive.. I find MOST of your hatred, sniping and spewing of bile toward and about OUR president and country rather offensive as well.. When you become offensive enough, then I usually post some thoughts and comments.

The fact that you are offended by my comments shows to me that I finally got you to think about your stance.. maybe not, that's pretty optimistic of me.

It seems like spc and I got under your skin... I have to say you get under my skin most of the time..

Your extensive knowledge of tv trivia speeks volumes.. when I was growing up, I didn't have a tv to watch.. when I got an assignment to see a National Geographic show for school, I had to go to my neighbors, they had a tv.. I grew up poor.. I fixed cars with my dad so we HAD a car.. we grew some of our food, and I had my own small but lucrative business when I was 10 years old..I bought most of my own clothes as a kid. Better than wearing my older brother's hand-me-downs.

From this I learned that a sense of entitlement is foolish.. sort of like expecting to win the lottery.. The only real things in life are those you create for yourself.. I learned early on that the government, the police and the IRS are NOT my friends.. And I learned early on a dislike for the well dressed, well tv-educated people my age at school... they were spoiled, and complained about having to lift a finger to help themselves.. some even had nannys.

You however with your extensive knowledge of tv trivia, must have grown up with a tv in front of you all the time,, the life of luxury for a kid... I was humping my paperroute, or fixing mowers and small engines in my business, or cutting lawns, I didn't have the luxury of a tv to watch, or desire to watch... I was working..

Maybe you grew up with everything handed to you?? did your mother work?? mine went to college and got an education when I was growing up, so she could get a job and help support the family and the foster kids we took in. My long suffering sister raised me and my little brother. Maybe you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth??

Maybe this is where your liberal left leanings come from,,, You have yours, have done your deal, and are now retired, living off a system that the taxpayers paid for??

The above could be offensive to you, certainly not my normal oatmeal and milk writing.. but you seem to constantly be starting topic after topic after topic in this forum for your apparent personal gratification.. You seem to enjoy stroking your liberal feathers, you have one fellow supporter, compared to dozens of others from the opposite train of thought and beliefs.. but you continue to post more and more new threads about the same same...

Oh well. if that is the tree you choose to bark under, then I guess I can just try to ignore it. You are a very small minority here...

Personally I wish Richard had never created this particular forum... I prefered the past when I felt we were all fellow coal burning 'brothers'...

Greg L.

LsFarm wrote:Devil, it's interesting that you find something I say offensive.. I find MOST of your hatred, sniping and spewing of bile toward and about OUR president and country rather offensive as well.. When you become offensive enough, then I usually post some thoughts and comments.

The fact that you are offended by my comments shows to me that I finally got you to think about your stance.. maybe not, that's pretty optimistic of me.

It seems like spc and I got under your skin... I have to say you get under my skin most of the time..

Your extensive knowledge of tv trivia speeks volumes.. when I was growing up, I didn't have a tv to watch.. when I got an assignment to see a National Geographic show for school, I had to go to my neighbors, they had a tv.. I grew up poor.. I fixed cars with my dad so we HAD a car.. we grew some of our food, and I had my own small but lucrative business when I was 10 years old..I bought most of my own clothes as a kid. Better than wearing my older brother's hand-me-downs.

From this I learned that a sense of entitlement is foolish.. sort of like expecting to win the lottery.. The only real things in life are those you create for yourself.. I learned early on that the government, the police and the IRS are NOT my friends.. And I learned early on a dislike for the well dressed, well tv-educated people my age at school... they were spoiled, and complained about having to lift a finger to help themselves.. some even had nannys.

You however with your extensive knowledge of tv trivia, must have grown up with a tv in front of you all the time,, the life of luxury for a kid... I was humping my paperroute, or fixing mowers and small engines in my business, or cutting lawns, I didn't have the luxury of a tv to watch, or desire to watch... I was working..

Maybe you grew up with everything handed to you?? did your mother work?? mine went to college and got an education when I was growing up, so she could get a job and help support the family and the foster kids we took in. My long suffering sister raised me and my little brother. Maybe you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth??

Maybe this is where your liberal left leanings come from,,, You have yours, have done your deal, and are now retired, living off a system that the taxpayers paid for??

The above could be offensive to you, certainly not my normal oatmeal and milk writing.. but you seem to constantly be starting topic after topic after topic in this forum for your apparent personal gratification.. You seem to enjoy stroking your liberal feathers, you have one fellow supporter, compared to dozens of others from the opposite train of thought and beliefs.. but you continue to post more and more new threads about the same same...

Oh well. if that is the tree you choose to bark under, then I guess I can just try to ignore it. You are a very small minority here...

Personally I wish Richard had never created this particular forum... I prefered the past when I felt we were all fellow coal burning 'brothers'...

Greg L.

I am not at all offended by your remarks Greg & I also enjoy discussing coalstove heating above all else here. You made me do a little sole searching & some of your remarks are close, but not exactly on the mark. I did not grow up priviledged, as a matter of fact my father died when I was 11 years old & my mother was in an out of mental institutions & even when she was home, was not really capable of taking care of her children. I guess I did watch an inordinate amount of TV as a kid , mainly as escapism. When I learned of my father's death (from Cancer-he had been sick for about a year) my childhood ended & I remember feeling the loss of all the childhood safety crashing in on my world. I suddenly realizd that bad things can happen tpo good people & that nothing was simple anymore. With my Mother's illness, I learned that I had to depend on myself for anything I wanted. That if I didn't do/accomplish it, iust wasn't going to get done!
Add to that what they used to call a "Head Injury" (Now called TBI-Traunatic Brain Injury) that I suffered on the job when I was run down by a car, went though the windshield..headfirst.... & was in a coma for about 3 weeks & hospitalized for the better part of a year & you come up with a man who is admittedly not "A day at the beach!" This happened in Dec/1989 & I have been disbled since then. (TBI causes permanent personality changes of which, become or exacerbate confrontational traits.)
I really hate to bore this forum with my story, as I know everyone has their own private crosses to bare, but your post really touched me & made me feel that I owed everyone here a bit of an explanation as to who & why I am.
I don't expect everyone to even be interested enough to read any more of this but I find it a bit therapeutic to put it down so I will continue.
It is funny that your post was timed the night after my wife & I had a funny discussion (at dinner with my Brother-in-law & Sister-in-law) about my personality & how I seem to enjoy confrontation. I guess I do, but I think of it as just being realistic in a sometimes cruel world & more of enjoying "debate" for it's own sake. I admoitt that I do tend to look for the negative side to show up regarding almost any situation & I guess the recipients of my confrontational style don't find it always so enjoyable!
I have 3 grown daughters, aged 40,35 & 30 & they are, God help their Mother, confrontational like their father! (my wife is very non-confrontational to the point that she won't really stick-up for herself with others, but I (& my kids) more than make up for her))
Getting back to your post, I am retired now & do enjoy debates & discussions, which I guess is why I start so many threads. I am not much of a TV watcher now (not really since I was a kid) as I find most of it offensive & demeaning, so I spend alot of time on this & other forums.
As far as my liberal tendencys, I guess I come by that naturaly as I remember my Father's books were mainly political in nature & heavily Democratic. He was an Adlai Stevenson supporter kin the 1950's & very much into the integration movement.
I'll close this catharsis with the following thought:
I apologise to any member who finds my posts "over-the top" & my intention here is not to make enemies. I have told my wife & family in general to point out to me when I get "overly confrontational" & I will try to stop myself.


PS: While I admit to railing against this administration, ad nausium(sp), I have never spoken against this country...which I love & have defended & worked for most of my adult life.


Dick

I forgot about your father dying when you were young.. I appologize for my insensitivity. and poor memory.

I guess some root differences between us [other than political leanings and expectations] are that when I needed escape I walked to the public library, and brought back a grocery bag of books. [took awhile to convice the librarians to trust me] I could and still do read a book a day, when I'm in need of escape. The forum and other internet sites provide a great deal of escape as well..

Another trait that we are on opposite sides of is confrontation.. I almost never confront,, especially immediately.. I learned early on that a fast reaction with my temper almost always netted me a worse result than if I shut up, backed off an thought about it. So I'm not confrontational untill pushed,, then I'll push back.

Anyway, sorry to have discounted your losses in your early years. obviously loosing your dad at an early age was tough.

Greg L

PS, I believe that when he is elected, for good or bad, we still need to support our President,, dump him in the trash at election time, but support him when he is in office... sort of like working for your boss even if you despise him.. Just silently wait till he gets fired, and then maybe the next one will be better.
Even when a bad one, the Pres is our country, maybe for only 4 years, less if impeached, but still our country. I feel about badmouthing the Pres the same way I feel about guys who really seriously badmouth their wives... get a divorce and get on with it!!
All the polititians play the same game, with differnet slants.. that's why there never is an attempt to change the electoral college.. it is part of their politcal game..

GL

.

LsFarm wrote:I forgot about your father dying when you were young.. I appologize for my insensitivity. and poor memory.

I guess some root differences between us [other than political leanings and expectations] are that when I needed escape I walked to the public library, and brought back a grocery bag of books. [took awhile to convice the librarians to trust me] I could and still do read a book a day, when I'm in need of escape. The forum and other internet sites provide a great deal of escape as well..

Another trait that we are on opposite sides of is confrontation.. I almost never confront,, especially immediately.. I learned early on that a fast reaction with my temper almost always netted me a worse result than if I shut up, backed off an thought about it. So I'm not confrontational untill pushed,, then I'll push back.

Anyway, sorry to have discounted your losses in your early years. obviously loosing your dad at an early age was tough.

Greg L

PS, I believe that when he is elected, for good or bad, we still need to support our President,, dump him in the trash at election time, but support him when he is in office... sort of like working for your boss even if you despise him.. Just silently wait till he gets fired, and then maybe the next one will be better.
Even when a bad one, the Pres is our country, maybe for only 4 years, less if impeached, but still our country. I feel about badmouthing the Pres the same way I feel about guys who really seriously badmouth their wives... get a divorce and get on with it!!
All the polititians play the same game, with differnet slants.. that's why there never is an attempt to change the electoral college.. it is part of their politcal game..

GL

.

No apologys necessary Greg. We don't know eachother at all & I wouldn't expect you or anyone else here to remember any member's past history, nor is it important for members to do so. What matters is what we contribute here, & I have noticed that you are always there to jump in & try to help others with coal heating problems.I feel that I have contributed along those lines as well, & off-topic threads are just a way of relaxing & exercising our minds until we can assist others with coal related problems.
Regarding confrontation, I wish I was smart enough to not always be ready to "Duke It Out" on any subject but, while I'm trying to work on it, it is too much a part of my basic personality after all these years to expect me to turn "mello" overnight
At the risk of jumping right into confrontation again.......I will!
I totaly disagree with you belief when you say that: "Even when a bad one, the Pres is our country, maybe for only 4 years, less if impeached, but still our country..."
I don't feel any "person" is our country & that we have an affirmnative obligation, as citizens, to defend our country from a very bad President, who in my view, is destroying our country! ( A "King" may be viewed by his subjects as his country, but a President is merely an "employee" of the people, & the present one is, in my opinion, the worst employee we have ever hired)
That is a very fundamental difference between us & explains alot about how we approach rectifying the very bad situation that exists in our country today. I understand now that you feel that when I attack GW Bush, I am attacking this country. You are 100% wrong in this thought! I am attempting to defend our country from what I perceive to be the greatest threat to it since the Civil War....Namely this Neo-con administration.

shucks, I love you guys.

spc: You're right, we're in this box. But, 'tedious' is about as polite as I can water down criticism of half-formed arguments. Tighten up your facts and you'll be more convincing.

This documents the composition of the Iraqi "insurgents" here into 7 groups, all of whom have become militant since we knocked out Saddam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_insu ... Insurgency

To get back "on topic", Devil, I don't know why this pentagon report is important. "Al-Qaida" didn't exist in Iraq until 2005 (2 years after we deposed Saddam) and it's well documented here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hus ... d_al-Qaeda. Not even Israeli intelligence supports the claim that Al-Qaida existed in Iraq, and they had a lot to gain from the invasion.

If your point is that the administration trumped up Iraqi "Al-Qaida" as invasion justification? Obviously.

(Since we're discussing our backgrounds, I worked on the 2 Reagan presidential campaigns and for Buchanan in '92. I spent 8 years working as a gubment consultant to an intelligence/countermeasures group mentioned in the above articles. Bill Buckley was my hero, but the neo-cons he spawned are not. I have problems with McCain ("Bush III") as an inadequate conservative and believe Obama is the best thing to hit the political scene in decades. I can't vote for his politics, but he has blasted the status quo that exists in the democratic party and put everyone else on notice. Hil thought she would be a shoo-in and she's getting licked by a black man with an african/muslim name. She, the party and the press have missed the changes. Epic.)

spc wrote:

Charlie Z wrote:This is getting tedious. You both are shaping personal agendas into current events and both are wrong.

Spc has confused about 3 dozen arab parties that would kill each other before they got to an American and Devil is measuring column inches of media (filled with worthless fluff) for bias.

The combo creates the average guy on the street. Can we talk about coal now?

Charlie its like tv if you don't like what you are watching click to another channel.
This is:
General & Off Topic Posts
Politics, Fun stuff and anything else that doesn't relate to coal. Please keep it civil.

Gentlemen, gentlemen. No discussion worth having can be sustained without differing viewpoints and people willing to debate them.

Yet, the best of these happen where people don't get personal about it and question unprovable things like someone's "patriotism" or otherwise lower the discourse with personal attacks directed at lineage, intelligence, "yo mama," and the like. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to toss around the occasional heated "glibs" or "right wingnuts" or such like to describe a political group we think fits the situation. But none of this should ever get personal.

In the end, this is the equivalent of the water cooler; it's an entirely optional place and, as the old Truman coal-stove saw goes, "if you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen!"