I Feel Defeated

Idomeneus · Post by **Idomeneus** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 2:46 pm

quick back story.....I llive in upstate, NY. Started burning coal in an Alaska insert about 6 years ago. Upgraded to a 1953 EFM boiler 3 years ago. My house is old and big (2300 Sq. ft.). Last year was the first year I built a big bin in the basement and bought bulk. The coal does a great job keeping the house and the hot water warm all winter. I burn oil in the summer for the hot water.

Now why I feel defeated....

I have had lots of problems. First it was draft issues. Then it was blockage issues with the auger. I have replaced the feed tube. Last year 2 burner plates cracked. Thank god for CO detectors. Yesterday I was looking everything over to see how she was weathering the summer when I noticed two more cracked burner plates. Sigh....

The thought of taking the blower off the side and the burner out and tracking down plates and putting them in just makes me tired. I sort of dread it. My mind is racing to figure out how I can just burn oil and be done with it all. The problem is the cost. I spend about $2500 a season in coal. We burned 10 tons last year. I know it would be at least $1000 more to burn oil, if not a lot more

Thinking I could set the oil real low, like 50-55 degrees. Get a few micathermic heaters and move them around as needed. Make a real effort to seal windows and make the house more efficient. When the coal boiler runs my electric bill jumps about $100-150 a month anyway so the heaters should probably be about the same.

What do you think? Would the family freeze? Talk me out of it? Sound good? As much as I love burning coal my mind is thinking "no more ash to dump, no more buckets to haul, no more worrying about heat when on vacation"

I feel like I am at a crossroads with my heat but I also don't have a ton of money for a new system. Thoughts please?

Post by **Richard S.** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 3:32 pm

Idomeneus wrote: when I noticed two more cracked burner plates. Sigh....

Generally speaking the EFM's are bullet proof but if those parts are 50 years old it should be expected they are going to break down at some point.

I know it would be at least $1000 more to burn oil, if not a lot more

Oil is not going to stay cheap.

Post by **franco b** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 3:54 pm

10 tons seems excessive for a 2300 sq, ft. house. Either the house is loosing too much heat or the boiler is running poorly. Do the house fix and if available in your area hire someone to fix the boiler and trouble shoot the system.

Maybe hire a local teen to do the ash bit.

Post by **StokerDon** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 4:19 pm

Idomeneus wrote:I have had lots of problems. First it was draft issues. Then it was blockage issues with the auger. I have replaced the feed tube. Last year 2 burner plates cracked. Thank god for CO detectors. Yesterday I was looking everything over to see how she was weathering the summer when I noticed two more cracked burner plates. Sigh....

If your EFM was not fully refurbished before it was installed, these breakdowns can be expected on a 60 year old stoker. If it was refurbed with new grates, worms, pipes, something is very wrong. These parts last decades NOT a couple years.

Sounds like you may be running a bit to much air overheating the pot.

Anyway, once the EFM's problems are worked out, it should run trouble free for years and years. Then you can work on your ash auger system. Then you won't need those pesky ash tubs!

The way I see it, it's freeze or burn coal!

-Don

davidmcbeth3 · Post by **davidmcbeth3** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 5:41 pm

franco b wrote:10 tons seems excessive for a 2300 sq, ft. house. Either the house is loosing too much heat or the boiler is running poorly. Do the house fix and if available in your area hire someone to fix the boiler and trouble shoot the system.

Maybe hire a local teen to do the ash bit.

I burned 7.5 tons last season ... in my fireplace insert ... so it does not sound outrageous (maybe ran from 1 OCT - 1 JUN?)

2350 sq ft house here.

coalder · Post by **coalder** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 6:03 pm

All of the above is exactly why I chose a hand fed boiler. This will be my third year as a novice, and do not suspect any problems. Never could understand the advantages of such a mechanically complicated system. Big deal, I shake & load twice a day with no moving parts to malfunction. Can't get much easier than this. Something to think about.
Jim

Post by **Richard S.** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 8:32 pm

coalder wrote:All of the above is exactly why I chose a hand fed boiler. This will be my third year as a novice, and do not suspect any problems. Never could understand the advantages of such a mechanically complicated system.

They are really not mechanically complicated systems and usually run for decades without a hitch. We replaced a few rings in ours and only because it was out, wasn't absolutely necessary. It's been almost 35 years of hassle free service and it will probably go for another 35 without much issue.

Post by **StokerDon** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 9:20 pm

And that is the real point here, these are simple, heavy duty machines. The OP should not have cracked grates and worn pipes and worms after a few years, should be a few decades.

-Don

Post by **Rob R.** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 9:30 pm

If the house is old and drafty you can probably take a big dent out of your heating load with some basic air sealing efforts. This would be a benefit regardless of how you produce btu's.

$100 per month of electric to run the stoker? That sure seems out of whack. Do you have a large circulator that runs all the time?

As for all of your mechanical problems, it sounds like you started with some used parts that are now showing their age, and perhaps something else caused the plates to fail. Running a very low feed rate, using too much combustion air, and not using the timer are all tough on the plates.

If funds are limited, installing an oil boiler and then budgeting for 1500 gallons of fuel seems like a bad idea.

Post by **Richard S.** » Mon. Jul. 20, 2015 9:54 pm

StokerDon wrote:And that is the real point here, these are simple, heavy duty machines. The OP should not have cracked grates and worn pipes and worms after a few years, should be a few decades.

-Don

The unit is from the 60's.

Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960s EFM 520

titleist1 · Post by **titleist1** » Tue. Jul. 21, 2015 7:43 am

Richard S. wrote:The unit is from the 60's.

maybe even older than that...

Idomeneus wrote:Upgraded to a 1953 EFM boiler 3 years ago.

I think SWDon was banking on a refurb having been done when he bought the unit 3 years ago.

But I suspect a refurb wasn't done to the unit at that point so who knows if they are original parts or not. Sounds like a review of settings and burn procedure may help with the boiler longevity and tightening up the building may help with coal usage.

Long term it would be less $$ using coal but we all know burning coal isn't for everyone since there is a bit more hands on work than with oil or gas.

Post by **Richard S.** » Tue. Jul. 21, 2015 10:09 am

titleist1 wrote: But I suspect a refurb wasn't done to the unit at that point so who knows if they are original parts or not.

That's not something you're going to replace unless it's broke. We have rings in ours and as I mentioned there was a few cracked we replaced and only because the stoker unit was already separated from the boiler, they may have been cracked for 20 years for all I know.

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Tue. Jul. 21, 2015 10:16 am

The feed tube and burn grates normally last longer than that, but they are wear parts that eventually need to be replaced based on...wear. Rob and StokerDon had some good suggestions for possible sources of some of the observed problems, and to those I would add excessively wet coal and fines accumulation in the air chamber.

I'll disagree with the posters who seem to be saying that new parts would make a big difference with these operating issues. The old auger pipes and the new aluminum ones are both subject to corrosion from use of wet coal. Old grates eventually crack, but the new ones are made of softer material that is pretty susceptible to warpage, so if a lot of excess air is being used the problems might actually be worse with new grates. I ran over 30 tons through an EFM 900 that had visible cracks across 2 grates, and expected I would need to replace them, but they looked the same when the unit came out of service as they did when I noticed the cracks. I'm not saying installing cracked grates is a good idea, but all else equal the old materials generally are very durable, and I fully agree with Richard that if they are sound they should provide good service.

Making sure the fuel/air mix is right (producing a 2" ash ring after a long continuous run) is good for both the stoker and the efficient use of coal. And I have to disagree with coalder - the ability of the stoker to supply a reasonably precise fuel/air mix and match the output to the load generally produces an efficiency advantage relative to hand-firing (I've seen #'s up to around 20 percent). So with some fine tuning the OP might be able to reduce coal use as well as equipment issues.

Mike

davidmcbeth3 · Post by **davidmcbeth3** » Tue. Jul. 21, 2015 10:21 am

OP did not say his unit was obtained as a refurbished machine; although the task of refurbishing should include replacing components that are old that can be replaced (what, refurbish is to just knock off the rust and a paint job?).

So he has a unit from at least the era before we landed on the moon.

OP may wish to burn oil this winter and pick up a new device ... or just go back to oil until the "holy crap" feeling when oil goes back up is creeping up on him.

coalnewbie · Post by **coalnewbie** » Tue. Jul. 21, 2015 11:46 am

Never could understand the advantages of such a mechanically complicated system. Big deal, I shake & load twice a day with no moving parts to malfunction. Can't get much easier than this. Something to think about.

Such a smart man. I thought I would I would move from forced air to hydronic sophistication. Instead I am moving backwards to big hand feds and loving every moment so I do not even use water. Peace, it's just what works for me. Just make sure there is overkill in everything you do. If the power goes out I just need to remember where I put the beer.