Van Wert VA600 Rebuild

 
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StokerDon
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Post by StokerDon » Tue. Aug. 25, 2015 5:26 pm

That one sounds way more complicated than what you need. It also serves multiple loads, you only have one. To top it off, it looks like the shortest "ON" time is one minute. What if you need to go to 30 seconds?

This is the one I use.
http://www.grainger.com/product/TORK-Percentage-T ... 1?$smthumb$

You can get it for about half the Grainger price. Intermatic makes nice ones too. With a Van Wert I think you just want it to run every 30 or 60 minutes for somewhere between 30 seconds and 2 minutes.

-Don


 
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Scottscoaled
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Post by Scottscoaled » Tue. Aug. 25, 2015 6:52 pm

Van Werts don't need much of a timer cycle to run at all. They have a deep firepot that holds a fire very well. When I was running one, a once an hour for two minutes was enough. There are more members here with Van Wert experience that will have a better idea exactly what works best.

 
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Post by Dave 1234 » Tue. Aug. 25, 2015 8:53 pm

A B . Nice rig and good work too !

Timer....... I may get flamed here, but my EFM is going on a year now with no timer and no out-fires.
They use coal, and are one more part to give drama.
Just wanted to let you know, some don't use 'em.

Dave

 
alpineboard
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Post by alpineboard » Tue. Aug. 25, 2015 10:05 pm

Thanks to all for the input. It helps to know what other ideas are out there, not just my own, that will help me with my quest.
The reason I am leaning towards the Intermatic that I posted , was , once I figure out how I want to run the VW, with a little help by using it, I can set up a few " timer events", for 1) mild temp 2) semi cold temp 3) cold 4) really cold, 5)idle . That way all I do is go into the menu of the unit and choose 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 and hit enter. I will have these "time events" written down on the wall, so I do not forget. As compared to moving pins around on a dial. I do know that I will not do any "set back" temps, as I never know when I am in or out anyway. But just the ability to set time on/off intervals within an hour/hours is in itself its' own "set back".
Also, both the single SPST and the double DPST are $99 , so why not get the Double, and it is there if the other one stops working. You can disable the 2nd one so it does not throw.
I still need to refresh myself with the aquastat, I am guessing that the power goes thru the aquastat first then the timer to B1/B2 . So the thermosat still is in control for the high heat aquastat setting, but the unit will still cycle on the low aquastat temp setting, all if the timer says "go". If this is true, the aquasat can be trying to start the boiler for low temp, but does not start it until the timer says "go". Same is true for thermostat telling the aquasat , a need for high heat setting, but will not turn on until the timer says "go".
Summary, the aquastat controls the water heat settings (low/high), the thermostat asks/no ask for heat, via the aquastat, the timer is the master. Aquastat is the slave. But the aquastat is there so that if heat is there, it turns the pumps on. My question would be, if or can a condition of heat be at the boiler but the aquastat can not turn the boiler on? Like a prior post said, no timer is necessary. But I am thinking, the timer is there to slow things down, cool things down, "more" than the aquastat regulates already does. And when the timer is off, the motor/fan are off, and the coal cools down. So although there is already heat in the boiler, when the fan shuts off, the coal starts to cool down. I guess I just need to run it to see.

I will go look at the aquastat manual 8124a or c. , or a pair of 4006's Am I missing anything here?

 
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Post by alpineboard » Thu. Aug. 27, 2015 8:00 pm

I noticed the van wert manual has a timer installed from the aquastat.
I did a dry run put together today, and got a feel of how it likes to go together, definitely a good thing to do. I am going to make new gaskets for the tran reduction box, and use permatex, as in the dry run it was weeping out the top cover, I filled it to the top of the bottom shaft w/90 w, as the manual said. The ring seals did not leak. Also got to line up the small auger so it does not hit the outer tube(friction). the long auger seems to rest on the bottom of its' tube so no worry there.

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alpineboard
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Post by alpineboard » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 7:33 am

I did some figures, 3.5"motor pulley / 3" tran pulley= 1.167
(1725 rpm motor speed) X ( 1.167) = 2015 rpm tran input shaft
2015 rpm / 600 reduction ratio = 3.360 revs per minute tran output shaft

I counted and watched the output shaft, and this is looks about right
Now go get a chain and watch the next reduction of 10 tooth sprocket output shaft to the 21 tooth sprocket auger ,= 0.476 ratio
So , 0.476 X 3.360 = 1.6 turns per minute auger speed.
Bottom line is how much coal the auger moves in an hour at 1.6 rev/min, So I will set up a small bin/load box and get the auger running for a spell with the buck, and catch the auger output in a bucket and then weigh it. This will give me an idea of what I am in for to burn in a year.
I will take a guesstimate, 1 turn of the auger will throw 2 ounces of coal, so (2 ounces) times (1.6 rev/min) times (60 min)= 192 ounces=12 pounds. 12 pounds an hour times 12000 BTU coal/pound= 156000 btu/hour.........???

 
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Post by alpineboard » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 4:38 pm

The auger feed test was completed today. It was run in 10 minute increments, keeping the same batch going for an hour. It ran consistently at 10.4 to 10.5 pounds per hour at each increment, with a total of 10.45 pounds for the entire hour, using buckwheat coal. This gives me a good starting point reference for what the set upwill do. The unit is rated at 130Kbtu/hour, so ,
(10.5 pounds of coal/hour) X (approx. 12,000 btu/pound coal)= 126,000 btu/hour.......close enough, to say that this unit is set up to run at its' maximum rating.
Lots of fun waiting the first piece to come out of the auger, it took more than a half hour to prime the tube.
24 hours at 10.5 pounds equals 250 pounds. I do not think I need that much, so more research on timers needed.
My guess was close at 2 oz / rev, actual was 1.76 oz/rev auger
and yes , I did subtract tare weight.

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StokerDon
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Posts: 7486
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Location: PA, Southern York County!
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 5:03 pm

I'm not quite sure how you ran that test?

You made sure there was coal feeding all the way through the system, good.

Then you ran it for 10 minutes at a time and multiplied that by 6 to get 10.5?

That seems a bit low, the manual lists the VA600 at 15 pounds per hour.

Also, it looks like you have about 5 auger flights sticking out the end of the bin feed pipe. I don't know about Van Werts but and EFM or a Gentleman Janitor would be crushing that buckwheat into barley.

-Don

 
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Post by alpineboard » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 5:45 pm

10 minutes x 6= 1 hr
20 min X 3 =1 hr
30 min X 2=1 hr
40 min X 1.5 = 1 hr
50 min X 1.2 = 1 hr
60 min = 1 hr
Each increment was added "onto" the total batch as the test went, I did not do individual, so each step averages in as you increase the count.
10.59 pounds
10.54
10.41
10.33
10.37
10.45
And I let it run for 20 minutes after the first piece came out.
Many variables can effect a run test, motor rpm, although my calcs matched my test results.
Coal type and shape, altogether different motors, mine was 1725 rpm. But actual rpm..? as well as fact test motors' rpm ...?
Any bend or bends in the auger...., what going on inside the 3" tube is any ones guess. How the auger is covered w/coal in the bin...etc.
Any way, I am happy with the results. As I am going to tune it down a bit for sure. Pea coal, rice coal, pea/rice coal mix.

I will inspect the tested buckwheat coal for any thing that appears crushed, it is still in the salad bowl. I am curious about your thoughts on why the extending auger tube would crush any coal. It seems to me where the rubber hits the road is the point that the 2 1/2" auger goes into/meets the 3" tube, and is where the crushing would happen, and there is not any changing that. That is the way they had it set up where I got the system. I have not changed a thing. thank you

 
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Post by Scottscoaled » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 5:56 pm

If I remember right, the 22 tooth sprocket was actually for a 400 feed rate which was 10 lbs/hour feed rate. There was a chart that had all the pulley/sprocket combinations for feed rates for Van Werts somewhere.

 
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Post by alpineboard » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 6:01 pm

tranny sprocket = 10 tooth
auger sprocket = 21 tooth
I will go count again, that missing tooth is where the 1/2 pound came from.
Seems to fit my application fine, just right.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 6:29 pm

alpineboard wrote: So if a double pulley on the tranny side, 3" , 4", which would give me some room to slow it down a bit, With shifting of pulley on the shaft needed for belt line up. Any one done this before?
The air setting is usually sufficient enough to adjust it, just turn it up until you're getting most of it burned. Should be in the 2 to 3 range but I guess how well your chimney drafts will affect that. I had considered doing this recently because the coal we were getting was very dense, it required a lot of air to get it to burn up sufficiently and I had to jack it up to 4 or 5. Being able to slow it down should have allowed me to lower the air setting.

This is something you can always change easily, I'd suggest seeing what your results are first and if you can keep the air in the 2ish range then I wouldn't bother.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 6:41 pm

Scottscoaled wrote:Van Werts don't need much of a timer cycle to run at all.
We've ran it for about the last 3 years with no timer year round without any issues keeping it lit. The caveat here is I finally got the entire insulating jacket on it about 2 weeks ago and new gaskets for both doors so it was losing a lot of heat. Once I did that It was only running about twice a day, wasn't going to be long before it went out. I have the low set on 130, high 150. It was blowing through 210 on the temperature because it was running for so long once it did come on. It was up over 220 the one time. Put the timer in and it's been keeping it steady for the most part.

With the 1200 I've seen it go out in as little as 5 or 6 hours, with this coal it's going at least 12 and I'm impressed to say the least.

 
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StokerDon
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 7:45 pm

alpineboard wrote: I will inspect the tested buckwheat coal for any thing that appears crushed, it is still in the salad bowl. I am curious about your thoughts on why the extending auger tube would crush any coal. It seems to me where the rubber hits the road is the point that the 2 1/2" auger goes into/meets the 3" tube, and is where the crushing would happen, and there is not any changing that. That is the way they had it set up where I got the system. I have not changed a thing. thank you
I'm not really sure why. With 3.5 flights sticking out on my Gentleman Janitor it was crushing the coal badly. I did a little research here on the forum and found a few threads about EFM's crushing buckwheat coal when they have more than 2.5 flights sticking out of the bin pipe. The cure was a slightly longer pipe or cutting the auger.

Maybe that's why the original owner parked it? Fines in the feed pipes will cause you a big headache!

I just thought you would like to know. I can't see why a Van Wert would be different, but I'm not standing there look'in at it.

-Don

 
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Post by alpineboard » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 7:54 pm

I just looked at the buckwheat that I ran thru it, and there was not any sign of crushing or breaking the buck into smaller pieces.
And I counted the teeth e few more times, 21 Teeth.


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