National Media Biased?

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: spc On: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:31 pm

stockingfull wrote:Olbermann makes no bones about his bias, just as, for example, O'Reilly or Hannity.

Now, let's try something completely new here: answer my question without dodging it.
You think fox news is right wing fine, thats one. We have CNN, MSNBC, NBC ABC, CBS all leaning left.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:45 pm

spc wrote:
stockingfull wrote:Olbermann makes no bones about his bias, just as, for example, O'Reilly or Hannity.

Now, let's try something completely new here: answer my question without dodging it.
You think fox news is right wing fine, thats one. We have CNN, MSNBC, NBC ABC, CBS all leaning left.


Thank you.

In the end, if people thought Faux or any right wing outlet was more truthful, or more attractive for any other reason at all, they all could flock to it, which would promptly put the others out of business. (Actually not, the others would mimic any approach which got higher ratings and thus sold more advertising. And, frankly, when I first began watching MSNBC in 2002 or so, I stopped because I found them to be a bunch of GOP lap-dogs. But I don't disagree that's changed somewhat recently.)

Bottom line: nobody's chained to any channel anymore; the media is a mirror of its viewership.
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:54 pm

Quote: Bottom line: nobody's chained to any channel anymore; the media is a mirror of its viewership. Unquote.

I can't agree with this, the media is at least 80-90% left leaning, the population is AT BEST 50% Left/50% right. If a poll were taken right after April 15th, I'd bet the poll would show the population to be 80% right leaning... don't forget, everyone paid more taxes under Bill Clinton than they do now.

If the left-leaning media is on a drum-beating agenda, on subject X... after three weeks or so a poll is taken on subject X, the effectiveness of the Media's drum-beating is obvious... the media can twist the minds of the public... easily.. And this is the true danger of a Biased Media.

The downfall of our society started in the 60's with LBJ's social experiment: The Great Society, started the welfare state, the food programs, the pay for pregnancy programs, and created a sub-society that will never rise above it's current position of having it's hand out, and being supported by the taxpayers... Sorry, but that 's the way it is..

And I for one, deeply resent seeing half my gross income going away before it becomes my net income... I resent being forced to pay for some able bodied person to eat, procreate, and suck the life blood out of America...

I'll never see half of what I paid into Social Insecurity, but more and more of the society is living off of the taxpayer... I feel like Atlas on payday...

Rant over, for now


Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland


Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:39 pm

[quote="LsFarm"]Quote: Bottom line: nobody's chained to any channel anymore; the media is a mirror of its viewership. Unquote.

I can't agree with this, the media is at least 80-90% left leaning, "...



Which ones of these national media types are in the 80-90% Left leaning category? (if your 80-90% figures are accurate, then you should be able to name 8 to 9 times the number of national media type that I have just listed.)

Pat Buchanan (TV, P)
Robert Novak (TV, P)
William Buckley (TV, P)
Cal Thomas (P)
Paul Gigot (TV, P)
Pat Robertson (TV)
Jerry Falewell (TV)
John Gibson (TV)
Charles Krauthammer (P)
John Leo (P)
James J. Kilpatrick (P)
Ben Wattenberg (TV, P)
Armstrong Williams (TV, R, P)
Thomas Sowell (P)
Fred Barnes (TV)
G. Gordon Liddy (R)
Michael Reagan (R)
James Dobson (R)
James Pinkerton (P)
Suzanne Fields (P)
Bob Grant (R)
George Will (TV, P)
Rush Limbaugh (R)
William Safire (P)
William Kristol (TV)
Bay Buchanan (TV)
John McLaughlin (TV)
Oliver North (TV, R)
Kate O'Beirne (TV)
Linda Chavez (P)
Tony Snow (TV, P)
James Glassman (TV, P)
Robert Bartley (P)
Mona Charen (P)
Laura Ingraham (TV)
John Stossel (TV)
Ken Hamblin (R)
Michael Barone (P)
Maggie Gallagher (P)
Sean Hannity (TV, R)
Bill O'Reilly (TV)
R. Emmett Tyrrell (P)
Tucker Carlson (TV)
Ann Coulter (TV, P)
Brit Hume (TV)
Don Imus (TV, R)
Brent Bozell (TV, P)
Larry Elder (TV, P, R)
Jonah Goldberg (TV, P)
Jack Kemp (TV, P)
Larry Kudlow (TV, P)
Michelle Malkin (TV, P)
Debbie Schlussel (TV, P)


..."And I for one, deeply resent seeing half my gross income going away before it becomes my net income... I resent being forced to pay for some able bodied person to eat, procreate, and suck the life blood out of America"...

And I deeply resent seeing my tax money going to pay for schools in Iraq when my grandsons, both come home with notes from their teachers begging for pens, pencils & other school supplys, which our school cannot afford to supply & our teachers are paying for out of their own low salaries! It infuriates me to be honest! Let's be honest here, our tax money is not really even mainly being used to build infrastrucrure in Iraq (while our infrastructure falls apart) it is being stolen by Iraqi graft & US businesses with "No-Bid" sweetheart deals! (just look at some of the GAO reports for proof)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:59 pm

Richard, you are in love with that list of people that you have posted numerous times... but how often do those people get on the screen or in print??
What the average american sees is is the agenda put out by the left leaning media... it isn't about commentators, or editorials.. it's about the agenda... like mentioned in this thread,,, the absense of 'Democrat' as a label for any wrongdoing politician if they are Democratic,, but an automatic emphasized 'REPUBLICAN' label placed anytime the offenind politician is a republican... this is just a minor, but all pervading whiff of the stink that permeates the left-leaning media...

An employee can be a right or left leaning person, but they work for their employer, and they won't be employed long if they go against the grain of the agenda of the employer. It's as simple as that. You can list, and list and list, but the media outlets, the TV, newspapers and the magazines set the tone and agenda... not the individual authors, or talking heads... it's their paycheck that guides their comments, and the editors that clip the 'outside the agenda' comments...

Face it, If you look at TV my numbers are pretty close... the left leaning agendas represent about 80-90% of the available TV programing...

As for the infrastructure being built in Iraq, I agree, but I believe that without trying to win the war in Iraq, by winning the hearts of the next generations, then the war will come to the states, and we will be repairing a war-damaged country, our own...


Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:22 pm

Greg, don't take my word for it, it's simple economics, the law of supply and demand. The acid test of where people are is what they buy. Follow the advertisers to the population.

I'll cite you again to my perception of, actually, both CNN and MSNBC. After 9/11, I found both to be very right-leaning. You'll recall that's when Bill Maher got thrown off ABC, which the right wingnuts suggest is lefty now. They leaned right then because the people did. That's when the War Resolution and the "USA Patriot Act" and all the other crazy garbage was flying through Congress -- because people were shocked into those literally "reactionary" feelings by 9/11.

But look what's happened since then. I don't disagree that MSNBC has moved left. For example, Olbermann started out pretty slowly but he's quite a draw now. But that's because the country has had time to digest what's happened and has come to the realization that simple demagoguery provides precious few answers. The media hasn't led the people left, it's followed them. Liberal just ain't a dirty word anymore.

And it's about time.

Anybody here who doesn't like it can just watch Fake News and patronize their sponsors. And when they're pulling so much away from the others in ratings, they'll get copied. Until then, Faux is just a network run by Roger Ailes.
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: spc On: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:16 pm

CABLE NEWS RACE MONDAY, MARCH 17, 2008

FOXNEWS O'REILLY 3,040,000
FNC HANNITY/COLMES 2,337,000
FNC GRETA 1,862,000
FNC SHEP 1,583,000
FNC HUME 1,508,000
CNN DOBBS 1,227,000
CNN KING 983,000
CNN COOPER 976,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 962,000
CNN BLITZER 839,000
CNNHN GRACE 663,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 604,000

People seem to like that right leaning cable news channel. :roll:
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:40 pm

LsFarm wrote:Richard, you are in love with that list of people that you have posted numerous times... but how often do those people get on the screen or in print??
What the average american sees is is the agenda put out by the left leaning media... it isn't about commentators, or editorials.. it's about the agenda... like mentioned in this thread,,, the absense of 'Democrat' as a label for any wrongdoing politician if they are Democratic,, but an automatic emphasized 'REPUBLICAN' label placed anytime the offenind politician is a republican... this is just a minor, but all pervading whiff of the stink that permeates the left-leaning media...

An employee can be a right or left leaning person, but they work for their employer, and they won't be employed long if they go against the grain of the agenda of the employer. It's as simple as that. You can list, and list and list, but the media outlets, the TV, newspapers and the magazines set the tone and agenda... not the individual authors, or talking heads... it's their paycheck that guides their comments, and the editors that clip the 'outside the agenda' comments...

Face it, If you look at TV my numbers are pretty close... the left leaning agendas represent about 80-90% of the available TV programing...

As for the infrastructure being built in Iraq, I agree, but I believe that without trying to win the war in Iraq, by winning the hearts of the next generations, then the war will come to the states, and we will be repairing a war-damaged country, our own...


Greg L



Good evening Greg. Many of those people on my list are seen multiple times a day even on liberal stations like MSNBC. (Pat Buchannon alone is on every MSNBC show from Hardball through Countdown almost every day.
Please name some of these" leftys" that take up so much media time that the conservative voice is not heard?
Then turn on Talk Radio & find any Leftys. My point is, & the reason why I continue to name names, is that, on balance (Fox vs MSNBC) both sides are (at least) pretty well represented.

As for this.."As for the infrastructure being built in Iraq, I agree, but I believe that without trying to win the war in Iraq, by winning the hearts of the next generations, then the war will come to the states, and we will be repairing a war-damaged country, our own... " A few points
1. The war in Iraq was over 3 years ago & we won....Yet, Al Quaeda is stronger now than ever.
2. Our mere presence in Iraq is creating morer suicide bombers than any hearts we could ever win over.
3. Do you really ( I mean really) beleive that we are winning the hearts of youngsters over there? They see their familys killed in street fighting & blame most of it on us. (therre is no way to fight street to street , in a civil war without killing civilians.
4. Who's side of Iraq'a civil war are we on?


Aside from right or wrong, we simply cant afford to stay in Iraq. Our real fight is in Afganistan & the tribal regions of Pakistan against Al Queda. Our economy is in shambles from the billions per month we are wasting in Iraq & is making us less safe here in the US. We desperately need that money right here. How about winning the hearts & minds of our own middle class, right here?
I just dont see a good side to stayimng. It;'s just like Vietnam towrds the end....To try to save face we are throwing good money after bad, young lives after dead young Americans! Enough!! I have a 16 & a 12 year old Grandson & a 2 year old Grandaughter. I want my tax money being spent right here, on them.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:24 pm

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

Money quotes:
These are just a few of the surprising findings from a UCLA-led study, which is believed to be the first successful attempt at objectively quantifying bias in a range of media outlets and ranking them accordingly.
...
"I suspected that many media outlets would tilt to the left because surveys have shown that reporters tend to vote more Democrat than Republican," said Tim Groseclose, a UCLA political scientist and the study's lead author. "But I was surprised at just how pronounced the distinctions are."

"Overall, the major media outlets are quite moderate compared to members of Congress, but even so, there is a quantifiable and significant bias in that nearly all of them lean to the left," said co‑author Jeffrey Milyo, University of Missouri economist and public policy scholar.
...
Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center, with CBS' "Evening News," The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal.

Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.
...
Five news outlets — "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer," ABC's "Good Morning America," CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown," Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and the Drudge Report — were in a statistical dead heat in the race for the most centrist news outlet. Of the print media, USA Today was the most centrist.
...
Since Groseclose and Milyo were more concerned with bias in news reporting than opinion pieces, which are designed to stake a political position, they omitted editorials and Op‑Eds from their tallies. This is one reason their study finds The Wall Street Journal more liberal than conventional wisdom asserts.


And, Devil, where is this list of righty media people coming from? Did you compile this yourself or is it a cut and paste job from some website? I'm not dissing you if it's the later, I just want to know and maybe suggest you start posting the link to it instead of reposting the whole list so often. It doesn't appear anyone is going to go to the trouble of either finding a similar list of lefties or compiling it themselves. Perhaps you'll consider this some form of vindication, but I warn that it would be unwise to do so. Lack of supplied evidence is not evidence of the negative. At most it is evidence of laziness on the part of your debating adversaries here on the forum. :)

Radio is about the only media form where conservative hosts outnumber libs. I think that is true for AM national talk radio, but for local AM talk hosts I think it is a good mix of right, moderate, and left. FM radio's national stuff is more left leaning, being populated by shock jocks and the rest. Exception being country music stations and shows. Local FM radio hosts are similar to AM local talk, a good mix.

Back to TV and print, there have been numerous studies and even annual polls that can verify the overwhelming left leaning staffing of TV news and print news media. While this is not necessarily indicative of similarly strong liberal bias in the reporting of these outlets, as what I linked to and quoted above shows, their attempts to be neutral or unbiased do fall almost consistently short of the goal, landing left of center in all but a couple cases and generally left of the "moderate" grouping of 5 shows and 1 newspaper. Interestingly the one TV news show that was rated as right of center is also in the moderate TV show grouping, leaving a pile of TV news shows sitting decidedly left of moderate.

Maybe this study was flawed, but given the source it is hardly likely they produced a study that was favorable to the right side of the political spectrum. And this study is generally in line with what has been shown in other such studies and reflects what is seen in nearly every poll of us lowly media consumers. Maybe you're right and all of the media is out for the all mighty buck above all else. I don't agree, but I'll accept it for the sake of argument and grant that it is a serious problem. But because it is a constant we can eliminate that as a differentiating criteria between the media outlets and focus on what does differentiate them, political biases in their reporting.
pvolcko
 

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:04 pm

Devil5052 wrote:Aside from right or wrong, we simply cant afford to stay in Iraq. Our real fight is in Afganistan & the tribal regions of Pakistan against Al Queda. Our economy is in shambles from the billions per month we are wasting in Iraq & is making us less safe here in the US. We desperately need that money right here. How about winning the hearts & minds of our own middle class, right here?
I just dont see a good side to stayimng. It;'s just like Vietnam towrds the end....To try to save face we are throwing good money after bad, young lives after dead young Americans! Enough!! I have a 16 & a 12 year old Grandson & a 2 year old Grandaughter. I want my tax money being spent right here, on them.


Remember all the manure the right wingnuts threw at Clinton for not getting OBL after the Cole? Well, now they have to blame him because, if Bill hadn't gotten his whistle tooted by Monica, the dolt who's occupied the office these past 7 1/2 years wouldn't have been elected in 2000, and we wouldn't have diluted and screwed up the operation to catch/kill OBL after 9/11 by invading Iraq -- that is, if 9/11 even would have happened (... maybe Al would have actually been reading the national security memos in August 2001, instead of playing with his chainsaw. :roll: ).
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:50 am

pvolcko wrote:http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

Money quotes:
These are just a few of the surprising findings from a UCLA-led study, which is believed to be the first successful attempt at objectively quantifying bias in a range of media outlets and ranking them accordingly.
...
"I suspected that many media outlets would tilt to the left because surveys have shown that reporters tend to vote more Democrat than Republican," said Tim Groseclose, a UCLA political scientist and the study's lead author. "But I was surprised at just how pronounced the distinctions are."

"Overall, the major media outlets are quite moderate compared to members of Congress, but even so, there is a quantifiable and significant bias in that nearly all of them lean to the left," said co‑author Jeffrey Milyo, University of Missouri economist and public policy scholar.
...
Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center, with CBS' "Evening News," The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal.

Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.
...
Five news outlets — "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer," ABC's "Good Morning America," CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown," Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and the Drudge Report — were in a statistical dead heat in the race for the most centrist news outlet. Of the print media, USA Today was the most centrist.
...
Since Groseclose and Milyo were more concerned with bias in news reporting than opinion pieces, which are designed to stake a political position, they omitted editorials and Op‑Eds from their tallies. This is one reason their study finds The Wall Street Journal more liberal than conventional wisdom asserts.


And, Devil, where is this list of righty media people coming from? Did you compile this yourself or is it a cut and paste job from some website? I'm not dissing you if it's the later, I just want to know and maybe suggest you start posting the link to it instead of reposting the whole list so often. It doesn't appear anyone is going to go to the trouble of either finding a similar list of lefties or compiling it themselves. Perhaps you'll consider this some form of vindication, but I warn that it would be unwise to do so. Lack of supplied evidence is not evidence of the negative. At most it is evidence of laziness on the part of your debating adversaries here on the forum. :)

Radio is about the only media form where conservative hosts outnumber libs. I think that is true for AM national talk radio, but for local AM talk hosts I think it is a good mix of right, moderate, and left. FM radio's national stuff is more left leaning, being populated by shock jocks and the rest. Exception being country music stations and shows. Local FM radio hosts are similar to AM local talk, a good mix.

Back to TV and print, there have been numerous studies and even annual polls that can verify the overwhelming left leaning staffing of TV news and print news media. While this is not necessarily indicative of similarly strong liberal bias in the reporting of these outlets, as what I linked to and quoted above shows, their attempts to be neutral or unbiased do fall almost consistently short of the goal, landing left of center in all but a couple cases and generally left of the "moderate" grouping of 5 shows and 1 newspaper. Interestingly the one TV news show that was rated as right of center is also in the moderate TV show grouping, leaving a pile of TV news shows sitting decidedly left of moderate.

Maybe this study was flawed, but given the source it is hardly likely they produced a study that was favorable to the right side of the political spectrum. And this study is generally in line with what has been shown in other such studies and reflects what is seen in nearly every poll of us lowly media consumers. Maybe you're right and all of the media is out for the all mighty buck above all else. I don't agree, but I'll accept it for the sake of argument and grant that it is a serious problem. But because it is a constant we can eliminate that as a differentiating criteria between the media outlets and focus on what does differentiate them, political biases in their reporting.


The media list I posted came from this political debate forum http://www.ballot.com/hotwire/ but I cant remember which thread. It doessn't really matter "where" it came from as all the names are pretty well known & not really debatable as to their political bent.
Getting away from the minutia of each name on the list, let's get back to my point in posting it which was this:
I keep reading posts that try to to convince us that there is one huge media conglomerate that is almost totaly "left leaning" (80-90% accoring to Greg) & the inference is that the "right/conservative" side is thus "overwhelmed" by the "left's" news reporting & I have yet to see anyone prove this theory. It just isn't true
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: Ed.A On: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:25 am

Uhmm, if you can't talk about National Media Bias then STFU

Where did I read that before, aye Stock? Typical Lib mantra...."do as I say, not as I do"
Ed.A
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III/ '94 Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: spc On: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:48 am

pvolcko wrote: Radio is about the only media form where conservative hosts outnumber libs.
And the left doesn't like that, they are legislating to reinstate the "Fairness Doctrine.

"Our massive strategy was to use the Fairness Doctrine to challenge and harass right-wing broadcasters and hope the challenges would be so costly to them that they would be inhibited and decide it was too expensive to continue."
--Bill Ruder, Democratic campaign consultant and Assistant Secretary of Commerce, Kennedy Administration

Like that kind of Freedom of Speech?

http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... s-doctrine
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:47 am

Ed.A wrote:Uhmm, if you can't talk about National Media Bias then STFU

Where did I read that before, aye Stock? Typical Lib mantra...."do as I say, not as I do"


Poor Ed, he has trouble with remembering what he's read. The quote was:

The question still stands: can any of you right wingnuts name a single network with a former political operative anything close to Roger Ailes' rank (and I use that term advisedly, since the guy was a Lee Atwater collaborator) in anything close to as high a position (Pres of Fake News) as he occupies?

If you can't, STFU about media bias.


Oh, maybe there's a reason for your memory loss -- like you've got no answer. :lol:
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: National Media Biased?

PostBy: spc On: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:17 am

stockingfull wrote:The question still stands: can any of you right wingnuts name a single network with a former political operative anything close to Roger Ailes' rank (and I use that term advisedly, since the guy was a Lee Atwater collaborator) in anything close to as high a position (Pres of Fake News) as he occupies?
You keep bringing this up as if someone broke the law. :?

And just in case you missed it:
CABLE NEWS RACE MONDAY, MARCH 17, 2008

FOXNEWS O'REILLY 3,040,000
FNC HANNITY/COLMES 2,337,000
FNC GRETA 1,862,000
FNC SHEP 1,583,000
FNC HUME 1,508,000
CNN DOBBS 1,227,000
CNN KING 983,000
CNN COOPER 976,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 962,000
CNN BLITZER 839,000
CNNHN GRACE 663,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 604,000

People seem to like that right leaning cable news channel.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer